Dr. Deonne Johnson: The Courage to Intentionally Create Your Life and Career

What happens when you take off your Wonder Woman cape? For Dr. Deonne Johnson, it meant discovering a more authentic, aligned life after years of chasing external validation through titles, degrees, and achievements.

A series of personal challenges in 2012  gave Deonne the ability to reevaluate everything. Through this awakening, she discovered the power of balancing masculine energy (action, achievement, stability) with feminine energy (flow, intuition, creativity) – a shift that transformed not just her career but her entire approach to life.

Dr. Johnson shares her journey from corporate leadership to founding her own coaching business focused on helping women create their "one wild and precious life." She offers practical wisdom on identifying your core values, examining whether your resources align with those values, and following the breadcrumbs of joy that lead to fulfillment. The bamboo plant becomes her metaphor for growth – years of invisible germination before suddenly sprouting skyward, reminding us that our most meaningful transformations often happen beneath the surface.

Throughout the episode, listeners will find themselves nodding along to discussions about showing up for yourself, making space for creativity, and asking the life-changing question: "How does it get better than this?" Dr. Johnson's humanitarian work across the globe adds another dimension, illustrating how perspective shifts can lead to profound personal evolution.

Whether you're contemplating a career change, feeling burned out, or simply searching for greater alignment between your values and your daily life, this conversation offers both inspiration and practical guidance. Connect with Dr. Deonne Johnson through her website and upcoming retreats to Kenya and Peru, and discover how taking off your own Wonder Woman cape might be the first step toward the life you truly desire.

https://www.drdeonne.com

www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate. Every community needs champions with vision and grit. Today, we engage with those who are creating value wherever they go in the state. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast. My name is Patti Cook and I am here with the endearing Dr Dionne Johnson, speaker, author and coach. Thank you for coming. Oh, thank you for having me, Patti, it's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1 0:31

We have circled around each other for a long time, so I'm glad that we have got this on the books and we could have a conversation today.

Speaker 2 0:38

Yes, thank you.

Introducing Dr. Dionne Johnson

Speaker 1 0:39

Yeah. So I would love you to introduce yourself and also share with our audience something personal about you, like we've had, you know, national yo-yo champions. We've had backup dancers to kiss, we've had people who love to camp with their kids. Like just something about you to give a heart to the face.

Speaker 2 0:59

Okay, I love that Well, as you said, my name's, dion Johnson. Pleasure to be here. I love that Well, as you said, my name's, dion Johnson, pleasure to be here. And a little bit about me, or I think I want to start with that interesting fact is I'm always learning new things and just recently actually yesterday was my first like official started voice lessons because I always wanted to do them as a high schooler and my daughter's been doing them for the last year and I thought I'm not too old to learn something new.

Speaker 1 1:28

Is it like singing or acting voice or singing, yeah, singing. And.

Speaker 2 1:33

I've also done belly dancing classes last year. Hey, that's awesome, I'm not. I would rather sing instead of belly dance.

Speaker 1 1:41

Very cool.

Speaker 2 1:43

But you asked for me to also share a little bit about myself and what I do. So I left my corporate role about a year ago to launch my own business to coach other women on how do they create their one wild and precious life.

Speaker 1 1:57

I love that, mary Oliver quote.

Speaker 2 2:00

So I have online courses. I'm working on a workbook. I do speaking engagements, as you're well aware. Retreats I have a retreat coming. I'm working on a workbook. I do speaking engagements, as you're well aware. Yes, retreats I have a retreat coming up to Kenya in June. So lots of opportunities to connect with me in different ways.

Humanitarian Work and Choice Expeditions

Speaker 1 2:13

Okay, perfect, and I feel like we should also maybe pivot into your humanitarian work. Sure, you mentioned your retreat in Kenya. Do you want to talk about that now too?

Speaker 2 2:22

Sure. So I went on my first choice humanitarian expedition in December of 2012 and my heart was forever changed. I was going through a really challenging time and that experience really helped shift my perspective. Things that I thought were really important, like you know what I have clean water. I have access to medical, I have my kids can get an education. I get to choose to be happy.

Speaker 2 2:48

And so many of these people in these other countries are still happy, even though they don't have all of the things that we just take for granted. So after that experience, I remember leaning over to the expedition leader and saying how do I do what you do?

Speaker 1 3:03

That was amazing. That's a great question.

Speaker 2 3:06

Yes, and he said you'd be an excellent expedition leader. So I've been leading one or two trips a year for the last 12 years.

Speaker 1 3:13

It's awesome. Do you have one of those coming up this year?

Speaker 2 3:17

I have a private one that's to Kenya in June and then a public one to Peru in August. Okay, very cool.

Speaker 1 3:24

And we'll put that in the show notes, if people are interested in choice.

Speaker 2 3:27

Yeah, I'll send you some links.

Speaker 1 3:28

Perfect. Okay, so let's start off with how we connected, because I love this story. It's so serendipitous. Yes, you have been around WLI for a couple of years now, so I just want to share.

Speaker 2 3:42

Like you know, how you came to WLI, what you've done with us yes, we'll get into that. Okay, so I was director of people and culture at Instructure. Yes, troy Anderson had moved to the VP role, and so I was his replacement, and so he invited Pat Jones to come into Instructure to make sure that Instructure could keep launching Women's Leadership Institute. We had a great space at the time, and I remember being so intimidated by her resume right.

Speaker 2 4:14

But then when you meet her in person, you're like and you're such a good human, Like she just radiates grace and humility and goodness and I think I might've said in that first meeting that I want to be like you when I grow up which I mean I am pretty grown up, but also, most of us do yes Right.

Speaker 2 4:33

Um. So in that meeting I asked her, in addition to talking about hosting WLI at Instructure, I said would you give a session for us at our annual professional development event, which was base camp? So I was so honored for her to say yes and she brought all of the goodness that she does, especially about gender and understanding how a balanced leadership team and balanced between the female and the male leadership, how that really strengthens your organization. So that was a powerful first connection. And then I love our most recent right, yeah.

The Traeger Connection Story

Speaker 2 5:12

And I feel like it's even worth talking about how we ended up at the location.

Speaker 1 5:17

Yeah, for I think that's part of it too.

Speaker 2 5:20

Sure. So it's so funny Like the stories of like how it all came back. There's like all these synchronicities that have led up.

Speaker 1 5:28

Sometimes things just align and you're like, oh OK, the universe has been taken care of. I'll just sit back for a little bit. Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 5:36

So when I was director of people and culture, Melissa Lobel shared a story that she had heard about Traeger and the level of customer service that this one representative delivered which, if you're interested in that, that's like you can find that on Google and it really stuck with me and I thought how can we bring that level of attention and care not only to our customers? But in that role, I was like, yes, how do we make sure that our employees feel loved, supported, they have a path, they know they're taking care of? So that was my goal was to bring that energy. Well then, fast forward, probably like two years later, and I'm in Nepal and Jeremy and Kristen Andrus are there with their family and Jeremy and I are walking down this windy Like on the same road.

Speaker 2 6:28

Well, I mean, they were on a choice humanitarian trip one that I was leading. Thanks for that clarification. So Jeremy and I are walking on this like dirt path, going to literally dig trenches to bring clean water to these people. Right, and I'm like I want to share this story with him, that he knows that this ripple effect from this one human at his organization has had an impact.

Speaker 2 6:51

Yes, so I share that story with him and that, amongst other things, I felt pretty connected to Traeger as an organization and knew their philosophy. So when Instructure scaled back their real estate, and that it wasn't an option to host Women's Leadership Institute any longer.

Speaker 1 7:11

Our career development series Yep.

Speaker 2 7:12

Yep. So I thought Traeger has this beautiful space headquarters like how beautiful would that be. And so I reached out to him and some of his associates at Traeger, and that's why we ended up at Traeger headquarters with the delicious meal.

Speaker 1 7:30

Yes, it was our kickoff for the career development series this year in January and they they use Traeger grills to cook all the food, and it was. I was like they cook this on a grill. It was shout out to Traeger. It was amazing.

Speaker 2 7:42

Yes, shout out to Traeger. It was amazing. Yes, yes, and I loved sharing some of my story and bringing value to the people that the women right that were there, that career development series and as I was getting ready to go on and share that, I had the little like hmm, they're talking about podcasts for Women's Leadership Institute yeah.

Speaker 2 8:01

I would love to be, you know, contribute in that way. So I remember walking around the corner to have that conversation with you. And here's your yellow pad next to you and it literally says podcast. At the top and there are two names Yep Mine was one Yep, and then Jenny, my friend. Her name was on there as well, and then I thought I need to share with Patty, how I know Jenny which?

Speaker 2 8:27

was almost a year ago. It'll be a year next month. I met Jenny at the University of Utah their women's symposium so it just feels like there's a spiral of like all these women that are desiring to make an impact and change the world for better. It feels like this hurricane tornado spiral, like some juiciness where it's like there's a movement going on.

Speaker 1 8:50

How can?

Speaker 2 8:50

we show up and help support other women.

Speaker 1 8:53

And I love that story because of just the sheer connections. Right, yes, that is part of what women do so easily and so well is connect, celebrate, amplify. Easily and so well is connect, celebrate, amplify. You know, I had said my spiel about at the beginning of CDS, about the podcast and the alumni, and I sat down and it was on my mind so I was writing all the people who I was, who I was like I'm going to contact, and then you came over and I'm like, ok, that's it. No, this is this is. I love it when the stars align like this. So thank you for sharing that story, because I I hope that people will begin to think about those things in their own lives right.

Speaker 1 9:29

Because they're there and start doing that for other people as well. Yes, cause that's really how we can lift each other up.

Speaker 2 9:37

So and I think part of it too is getting that intuition, inspiration, that little tingling right yeah, and having the courage to act on it, to ask, to know that what you have to share is of value. There are ways that you can show up and help others and just to take the courage to have the action. Sometimes it takes a lot of courage.

Speaker 1 10:00

Yeah, Like you said, leaning over to somebody and saying I want your job, Like what do you do? Teach me. I want to do what you do, or I don't know, whatever it is, I feel like the cusp of growth right is a little scary. Yes, To step in that next space, to be like, oh, let's go try that. So yeah, encourage people to act on those things. Let's go try that.

Speaker 2 10:23

So, yeah, encourage people to act on those things and to learn from others right, whether that's formally, through a mentorship type situation or even just what are they doing that's working and how can I bring more of that into my own life?

Speaker 1 10:35

Yeah, and the other thing I love about it is that you felt so strongly and were inspired that you told Jeremy Right, because sometimes the feedback doesn't get full circle, yeah, so I think that's really cool to you know, tell people how much that they matter or their stories matter, or that you heard from someone what their impact was.

Speaker 2 10:59

I think that's important too. I love that you brought that up, because just today I sent a Facebook message to my high school friend whose mother was the voice lesson teacher. Okay, I love Facebook for this. Yes, yeah, I mean, it was literally my first message ever to Billy James Hello, if you're listening and not so much his impact, but knowing that his mother had an impact and that I always wanted to take voice lessons as a high school student.

Speaker 2 11:30

And that same idea of like paying it forward of your mother. Even though she's passed, like her legacy, her energy still lives on. Like I thought of her as I drove to my first voice lesson yesterday.

Speaker 1 11:43

That's beautiful, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 11:44

Thank you for.

Taking Off the Wonder Woman Cape

Speaker 1 11:44

Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that. Okay, so you mentioned this briefly, but in 2012, you had a rough year. You went through a second divorce a flooded basement, the loss of a grandparent and an emergency surgery all within just a couple of months. And an emergency surgery all within just a couple of months.

Speaker 1 12:09

You said it was during this period you took off your Wonder Woman cape and started to learn to heal and receive. I'm really interested to dive into that, especially what do you mean by taking off your cape, and how did that lead to healing?

Speaker 2 12:21

I, most of my life, have been wired to produce, get the thing, the perfectionist, and it comes from a place of not feeling like I was worthy enough on my own. But how about now? What if I make this amount of money? What if I have? This title how about if I have this level of education? Oh, interesting. All of these external things, level of education.

Speaker 1 12:41

Oh, interesting All of these external things.

Speaker 2 12:44

And it felt like God or the universe was saying how hard do you want your life to get until you decide to slow down, because I'll keep sending these external reminders for you. Maybe you want to listen now and I really was at a stage of my life where I was 42-ish, probably around that, where it was time to really make some decisions about what did I want my next chapter? Of life to look like People get really reflective.

Speaker 1 13:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:16

Mm-hmm. And so when I say I took off my Wonder Woman cape, it was that prompting that message of you have got to figure out what you want your next chapter to look like and you are just on the hamster wheel of life.

Speaker 1 13:30

You're just not even being intentional, really, I see so, taking that off, you were chasing the next thing you thought would give you approval of whoever.

Speaker 2 13:39

Sure, yeah, yep I love that you asked that question. So I remember it was actually a good friend, Sarah, that she said it's time to take that off and I was like what?

Speaker 2 13:51

um, figuratively right folding it up, putting it at the foot of my bed that, though, that you did it visually and put it the foot of the bed. It's not like I'm burning it, but for now it just needs to rest right there and I get to lean more into my feminine nature. We talked about this before the show even started of receiving. I had leaned so hard into my masculine side of action.

Speaker 1 14:15

Yeah, get things done.

Speaker 2 14:16

Yep, yep, what do you need next? And there's certainly a place for that. And we have both of these energies within us, right, right. But most of my life I've lived more on my masculine side of take action, get the thing done, provide that stability, that structure, the mountain.

Speaker 1 14:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:36

And then it was like no, actually, when you learn to go with the flow, especially as a woman, and listen to that intuition, that's when magic happens, that is living, and I say creation. Yes.

Speaker 1 14:52

It's a pure form of creation.

Speaker 2 14:54

Yes, I was just listening today there were two things about creation. One was by Elizabeth Gilbert and the other was by Brene Brown. And how, leaning into that, I think Brene Brown something about like. I think she used the word benign. It was an interview with her and Oprah and I can send it to you.

Speaker 2 15:13

You can add it to the comments, but it was a reminder for me of how that is so much a part of who we are as humans to create. You're going to think I live a hippie life, and I probably do in some ways, but here's another story, for those online like you should see your skirt.

Speaker 1 15:31

I don't know. It is a fun skirt today.

Speaker 2 15:34

It is a fun fun skirt today, but I've also picked up watercoloring as a way of just the messiness of art and especially water and the creation, the creativity, the and when I have a more regular practice with whatever that creative form is, then it feels like okay, now you know the inspired action to take, and so it helps me find that flow of doing the thing, but also what is the right thing for me to do.

Speaker 1 16:03

So let me ask you this question because I have noticed I'm very similar, like I dwell in like results and what's the next thing. That's really important, right. But I've also noticed that when I can unplug and just I put the music on in my house, I just I got to move my body, I got to dance, you know, I just got to like get in touch with whatever's going on inside me and then I can sit down and just create. It just comes, yes. So my question is how do you pair those as a professional woman and having that kind of creativity and flow in your life? And is this perhaps why so many women leave corporate America to start their own businesses? You know, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 16:50

on that. I coming from the background.

Speaker 1 16:53

Right Of learning and development and employee engagement and KPIs and metrics, and data, which are all needed, but it's like the life isn't always in it.

Finding Flow and Creating Joy

Speaker 2 17:04

Yes. So I think I personally swung too far into that headspace, and I love that you turn the music on and you dance, because that brings an element of joy not only to you, but I would imagine the energy of your entire household shifts? Yes, when you're like mom's having fun. We're going to make some dinner.

Speaker 1 17:24

I'm like you can dance or not, but no judgment, Like there's a judge free zone.

Speaker 2 17:29

I'm sure my kids would judge yeah In, they would laugh and it would be fine because I yeah, I definitely have the I can't dance super well Belly dancing. But that question about finding that flow, I think it's intentionally creating that space for us to step back from. Okay, here are the things that I know I need to accomplish, but what's the best way to make space for those to come?

Speaker 1 17:56

in.

Speaker 2 17:57

And sometimes it is just like a little I'm doing a little scissor cutting action, like just to pause what you're doing and dance. Or what are the things that bring you joy? My business coach invited me to create my joy list.

Speaker 1 18:12

Yes, I love this.

Speaker 2 18:13

Have a blog post actually about it, and it was we should give her a shout out tiffany peterson hello, I love that woman.

Speaker 2 18:22

Um, but it was so fun to create. I probably had 100 things on there and wait, okay. So was it hard to start? Yes, yeah, but then after you kind of get the juices going and you're like it can be a, you know, a pasty from Le Croissant, or it can be taking a bubble bath with Spirit Goat. You know these little Cache Valley local places that I love, so it doesn't have to be. I'm going to do this massive trip across, you know, the ocean.

Speaker 1 18:52

It can be small things turning on the music and dancing, singing, playing the piano, reading a book the ability to wander is something that is so important to me, not like if, if I have a tank full of gas and a credit card and I just I don't have a destination. It's what I find along the way really brings some creativity to me. So if there there's a project that like it doesn't need to be done right now, but you have the ability to kind of wander and see what comes up, like that is really maybe that's one way that people can, you know, use that at work. But I love that deliberate intention of finding your joy no matter where you are, because it really fuels both those energies to keep them strong.

Speaker 2 19:39

I feel like what you said, too, is so representative of life, because we think that life is this point A to point B, right, but there is this wandering, yes, and if we embrace that, you know, sometimes it ebbs and flows and it's more up and it's more down, but ultimately we're getting to our end destination.

Speaker 1 19:57

Yeah, we want, yeah, but enjoying the journey feels really juicy and good, like, yes, give me more of that and nurturing right, Because the other part of that is burnout, which we've talked to several doctors on the show about burnout.

Speaker 2 20:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1 20:13

And one of them calls it emotional inflammation, which is really interesting too, and in regards to this conversation, so well and I also feel like curiosity is part of that too when you're wandering and you're just allowing right, it's not like you're, I'm so bored, I'm just wandering. No, there's gotta be an element of curiosity, of of expectation of something magical happening wonderment like I how does it get better than this?

Speaker 2 20:40

that's one of my very favorite questions how's it get better than this? Yeah, it's like a challenge. It's a challenge and invitation right like this is good. Also, I'm open to more so maybe I want to share my story Because my skirt came from Dubai, which was a magical trip that I took last fall. I'm the Delta girl mostly because we have a great hub here in Salt Lake.

Speaker 1 21:07

Thank you, Delta.

Speaker 2 21:08

Yes, and so I had some miles or points that I needed to use and I was leading that trip or a different trip actually to Nepal. So I thought, how do I get mostly there? And I want to tack on a little adventure for myself. So I had, I think, three days in Dubai and then I had a week in Nepal and then I had like four or five days in Paris, and I can see, that's lovely, oh my gosh, when you talk about disconnecting, that was really my most recent and probably of my life, the most powerful disconnection, and I came home literally with pure magic.

Speaker 2 21:43

You know, I wrote a children's book. No, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 21:46

No, that's why we have guests. We can learn all these things.

Speaker 2 21:50

It's in, it's 90 percent done with the logistics. But then I'm learning there's this whole other like who's on your launch team?

Speaker 1 21:59

and marketing and blah blah, blah Sure.

Speaker 2 22:01

And it will happen. I'm enjoying the flow, yeah, but on that trip I consistently asked myself how does it get better than this? And my one small story. There were a lot, but I had most of my big things, like the. You know, I was going to go to the Louvre and the traditional classic Paris, but I didn't have a ticket to the Arc de Triomphe. And there was one day where I thought I'm like 15, 20 minute walk, like I'm going to go see what that's like. I would love to see it at sunset. Sunset was approaching and I got to the location and I saw the line to get in. I was like I'm still going to, it'll be fine, I'll get there by the sunset. And then I saw the line to buy the tickets which was like 200 people deep.

Speaker 2 22:50

And I'm like, but I'm still feeling it. So I stood in line. As I got to the end of the line there was a guy with a couple of people that walked by and he said are you by yourself? Because I have one ticket if you want to just bypass this line of 200 people.

Speaker 1 23:03

You're like, do I?

Speaker 2 23:07

I was like how does it get better than this? He had a bonus ticket, handed it to me. I was able to see the sunset. That invitation, that's a great question for people to write down. How does it get better than?

Speaker 1 23:18

this. How does it get better than this With?

Speaker 2 23:20

gratitude. Right, it's not like give me, give me it's more.

Speaker 1 23:24

Life is magical and I'm loving it. One thing that Pat says all the time that I have come to just love is the concept of you have to show up.

Speaker 2 23:33

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 23:34

Right, If you would have been like I don't have a ticket, I'm not going to go tonight, then you would have missed it. Yeah, Like, show up even if it's uncertain, even if you don't know, because if you're not there, then the magic can't find you.

Speaker 2 23:48

So yeah, and it sends a message to ourself that we're worthy to like. That was one of my a couple of weeks ago in a yoga class. I was kind of debating whether I wanted to go.

Speaker 2 23:59

It was just one of those days and being on the mat and I recognizing like I was showing up for myself and what I needed was such validation of you're on the right path, you're doing the right things, you're showing up for yourself, you're doing the things today that your future self is going to say thank you for taking care of that body, your past self might have been like what are you doing there?

Speaker 1 24:23

We've got things to do, yes, yeah, and really it seems like what we're talking about as a general overarching theme is alignment Right, really aligning who you are and what you value with your output.

Speaker 2 24:37

Yes.

Speaker 1 24:38

Yeah, yeah. In our next chapter series, these women who are beginning in the pipeline maybe they've been at home with kids, maybe they've just been out of the workforce while taking care of a parent, whatever it is we ask them if you could do anything, what would you do? Because we get so used to doing everything for everybody at any time, but that doesn't mean that that's what we want to do. So just kind of creating space to think about that. Where do I really find my joy? Of course I find joy in doing this, this and this, and I can do that. Really, where do I plug in the most? That self-awareness, I think, is imperative for women.

Speaker 2 25:20

And it might give people like a little breadcrumb or a little gold nugget of. This is something you don't have to do it full time, but maybe it's something that could bring more joy into your life to explore, to be curious about. Yes.

Speaker 1 25:32

Yep, absolutely.

Speaker 2 25:34

There's the book, the artist way yeah, julie cameron and that's one of her invitations. Yeah, I love that, and so this I started in january, and one of her invitations is to think of three careers or people that you might be would have wanted to do or be when you're 16, and so dianaall was one of mine, and that's a singer, right?

Speaker 1 25:57

Yes, yeah, oh, you're like, of course, the singer.

Speaker 2 26:00

And that's what inspired me that day to reach out to my voice, teacher and say do you have openings?

Aligning Values with Professional Growth

Speaker 2 26:08

I'm never going to be like Diana Krall as a career, right, but I can add a little bit more of that to my life, yeah. And then another one that was super interesting to me was an architect and I was like, what is that about? And it wasn't so much that I want the blueprint and like that side, but the idea of having the vision and creation and the reminder I don't have to do it all by myself, because an architect doesn't just draft the plans and then make the bricks and then build the cathedral and the stained glass, like no, the idea of I can have the vision and invite others along the way to create this, co-create this beautiful thing. I don't know what it is yet, but it was interesting to have that connection from. That's what being an architect really is all about.

Speaker 1 26:59

And that's so opposite of like in regards to like power being territorial or saying, no, this is mine, that's yours, like the ability to co-create something that is still forming, just really I love. That Makes me happy. That's a happy space, yes, okay. So let's pivot to this. So you've been in corporate America, you've worked with women international through your service and with Choice Humanitarian, and now you're coaching women. I was really curious on the trends or pain points you see among women, and is it the same? Do you find different things?

Speaker 2 27:42

Like, share with us a little bit of what that looks like. Yeah, as you're bringing that up, I've been fortunate to coach women internationally, and one of my very favorite people I think it's fine to say her name too is Vasiti. She's from Fiji, and so she was with a different non-profit organization and I love this structure of this. I can't remember the name of the organization right now Something, oceana, I'll put it in the chat so you can add it.

Speaker 2 28:08

So I hosted her in Cache Valley, of all places, it was so interesting and she was doing an intern internship for instructor with instructional design, so she was working at a university in fiji and this non-profit that's based out of dc okay, will bring different cohorts of people. Yeah, bring them to the us. They're here for six weeks with the idea that they're getting infused yes, how do you? Whether it's business practices or instructional design, or there was a guy doing water treatment, so they get that experience, but then they go back to their country of origin and take that with them.

Speaker 2 28:46

And then sometimes I was able to go and visit her in Fiji and then I talked to a couple of different universities there and a women's group. So when you say the pain points that I'm seeing globally, we for sure have pain points within the US, but they're not unique to us and the limited family leave that she was allowed to take and the reduction of her finances right, and she's got four I think this is baby number four, like that's it's painful. And so when I look at my own I you know you sent these questions to me a few days ago when I reflected back on the challenges that women specifically feel and I can speak for sure to my own experience of having kids. So you're delayed getting into climbing the corporate ladder and, oddly enough, getting a PhD. So if you think about it, even though there's those credentials there, there was also five, six years where I wasn't climbing the corporate ladder and then it does matter.

Speaker 2 29:58

And then you layer in that I was remote my entire time, and that's super interesting too, because when you don't have that visibility like you're still doing the work you're still.

Speaker 1 30:09

Sometimes you have to be in the room some yeah, yeah, and invite yourself to the table.

Speaker 2 30:15

Yeah, and so I. Yeah, I had hopes that I would climb the corporate ladder quicker and in a more visible way for a little while and then I realized and Tiffany's the one that uses this phrase, which I love she said you climbed the corporate ladder and then realized it wasn't on the right wall. Yes, and I was like, and it gets to be okay, like it doesn't mean that I need to keep climbing just because I've been doing it for X number of years.

Speaker 2 30:46

But it feels like that sometimes it does, and I think that comes from more of a scarcity mindset too, which then it's for me that reminder that your outside world is often a reflection of your inside world. Sure, and going back to my experience from 12 or 13 years ago, like I knew I didn't like my life in that moment. Yeah, I you already said all the trauma that was happening, and there's even career wise. I wasn't really sure where I wanted to go or what I wanted to do, and so I buckled down hard on the internal work, like how do I get to have a growth mindset? What does that really look like? And there's this analogy of a bamboo plant, which seems very accurate for my own life, which is it takes either five or 10 years for that seed to germinate, and then, when it sprouts through the surface, you can watch it grow with your human eye, like that's how fast it grows.

Speaker 1 31:48

Interesting.

Speaker 2 31:49

And so I think some people look at my life the last year or two or three, or even what's going to happen in 25. And they're like where did this woman come from? I've been germinating.

Speaker 1 32:01

I've been germinating.

Speaker 2 32:02

I've been here all along people but doing that internal work, and there's no real way to measure that or to see that from the outside, but now it feels like, Ooh, all of that work that I've done that from the outside, but now it feels like, Ooh, all of that work that I've done. I get to bring more of that awareness and that blueprint so that other people can do the same. How do you cultivate a growth mindset?

Speaker 1 32:25

I love that One thing I remember that, uh, tiffany Peterson taught me in regards to this, especially leadership, is if you're at a level and you want to move up to a level, be promoted to another level. She said, like get more sleep, start exercising more, right, because you're currently at capacity. And if you want more capacity, you've got to do the internal work first to create room for all that new experience, responsibility, you know, whatever that might look like, and I just thought, wow, that reminds me of your bamboo a lot right germinating preparing and then rope, do you?

Speaker 2 33:11

know the he used to be at Google and I won't get his name right Mogot something. I saw a little short reel from him recently and he talked about stress. And if you have a ton of stress that's coming onto a wooden pencil, it's going to collapse. But if the same amount of stress is coming onto this still beam platform, it's going. Nothing's going to happen, because that still beam is strong.

Speaker 2 33:42

You've invested in sleep, you've invested in exercising, so it's the same amount of stress right, but if you're built up to endure it, the things that stressed me out when I was 16 or 20, peanuts, because I'm stronger, I'm a still beam right. 15 years when I I was 15, I was a wooden pencil like I would have crushed under what I've got going on now yeah, that's a great way to say it.

Speaker 1 34:09

I love that. Um, okay, so let's talk about many women are in. Their professional lives are in flux. Many women are just in flux in general, right, all the seasons, all the cyclical things, like we lives are in flux. Many women are just in flux in general, right, all the seasons, all the cyclical things, like we're just in flux, and they want to be promoted, change industries, have children, all those kind of things. What two things have had the most impact on your ability to align with your values and professional?

Speaker 2 34:38

growth. The number one is getting clear on what are my values, and that's actually, if you go to my website, you can get a free download of yes, here's all these values and when you can really pick the top three. And then you can look at your whether it's your bank statement, your credit card statement, the cash in your wallet and say am I spending money that are aligned with my value? And then look at your calendar Am I spending my time on things that I value?

Speaker 2 35:12

So it's adventure has been a huge value of mine for a very long time because of the growth that it gives. Sure, so am I spending money, am I spending time on that An impact? Actually, I was thinking about this as I was driving down here today, because I came from Cache Valley for people that don't know, so I spent two hours driving here one way. Thank you so much Because I desire to have an impact for the better and I felt like this conversation would be a value. And I know women's leadership Institute has a huge impact on women throughout the state and that ripple.

Speaker 2 35:47

So those are two of my values, and having that conversation, not only internally with you, but also with your kids, with your partner. What do they value? Helps you understand. Oh, the reason they're going to the gym is because help is one of their primary values, right? Or they're spending money on going to the gym or buying a new bicycle, right. And there could be a point of conflict. But coming at it with that curiosity and understanding, oh, dionne needs an adventure, because that's how she's wired.

Speaker 1 36:19

Yes, yes. And how much more supportive is it giving you something that you actually need and want? Yes, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 36:28

And then I come back and I am relaxed and I'm reconnected to who I am and grounded and creative and happier. Yeah, like everybody wants to be around that version of Dion versus the other one, that's I can't do it. So I would say that's the number one is getting clear on your values. What are your values?

Speaker 1 36:50

Have you found that that's easy for most people?

Speaker 2 36:52

No no.

Speaker 1 36:53

Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 36:55

Because so many things are important and if everything's important, nothing's important. Oh, I hate that.

Speaker 1 37:01

quote, quote and there's a lot of truth to it because can you say that you value 29 things?

Speaker 2 37:08

well, yes, but then you've got 29 really deeply competing values. So to look at a list of 60 ish and say I'm going to narrow it down to my top three, it's like well, gratitude's important too. Well, so is service.

Speaker 1 37:22

Yes, so is impact I can see that.

Speaker 2 37:25

That yeah. But what if you have to pick your top three for today and you know, or for the next yes, the next month, or maybe they're your values for your year? And I think about that with a company too. If you have a company that has here's our top 12 values, employees are going to be like I can't memorize those, I can't implement those. But if you say, here's our top three or our top five, and how are we demonstrating those? There's a lot of company principles that mirror the work that we could be doing in our own individual lives right.

Mentors Who Made a Difference

Speaker 2 38:01

We should know our mission, we should know our values, we should have a vision for our life and we should know where we're going. So that was my second part to that question is you have to know your values. And then, where do you want to go? It's like that Alice in Wonderland, right, where she's like which is the right road? And I think the rabbit says rabbit says, well, where do you want to go? Yeah, yeah, I don't know your cat. Yeah, yeah, it's like. Well, it doesn't matter if you don't know. So, getting clear on what you want, it's so yeah, it's so critical, but that has like something attached to it. It's more like an invitation, like when you get curious and think about maybe you wanted to be an architect, maybe you wanted to be an architect, maybe you wanted to be Diana Kral. Like what are these little breadcrumbs of life that, as you look back you can say, oh, that's a little piece of the equation that brings me joy. How can I bring more joy into my life?

Speaker 1 38:56

Interesting I love the idea of breadcrumbs of life. I was at lunch with a friend the other day and they said what did you want to do when you were a little girl? And I said be a Broadway star. Like I had my you know my brush, I was in the mirror, I'd sing and I'd dance and you know, in just in this conversation, I'm like I could do that. Just in this conversation, I'm like I could do that. I don't know if I'm going to be a Broadway star, but I could like go check out my local theater and try out for something. Yes, because, yeah, that is a thread that I left because I picked up other things, but my guess is it still would bring me a lot of joy.

Speaker 2 39:38

Yeah, I love that pat is taking drum lessons right.

Speaker 1 39:42

Oh, she's always learning, which is so cool.

Speaker 2 39:45

Yes, yeah and I also love it her age and stage of life, which she tells people that she's 75. I'm like I guess I can share that number here too, but I love that she's letting her light shine because it's allowing other women to see life isn't done yeah, when you're 75 100, you can join a band and take drum lessons. Yep, I was like well, I can take voice lessons.

Speaker 1 40:08

I might be practicing my karaoke, I don't know inspires people just even adjacently to what she's doing. Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to that, because she does have a zest for life and I think that many women perhaps, if they haven't been aligned throughout their life, they get to that age and they don't have a zest for life. Yeah, they have a tendency to live through other people who have a zest for life.

Speaker 2 40:35

And that alignment is so important, and I think understanding your values and seeing if you are living in alignment with your values, yeah, then it feels like it takes the pressure off because you're aware that you're spending your resources in ways that matter to you and nobody knows what that is except you, which is why you have to do it. Yeah, giving yourself that space to be curious, like I don't need to think that X, y, z is important just because my community or my parents or my kids or my partner like no, and I don't think that there's necessarily any bad value out there, it's just what matters to you.

Speaker 1 41:15

And I think the thing that I've seen women resist when we, you know, because part of leadership is self-awareness, 100% Right Emotional IQ, all those kind of things, and so that's something we teach in all of our programs. But I think some of the resistance is you have to make a choice and you have to own the choice.

Speaker 2 41:38

Yeah, For the time being.

Speaker 1 41:40

For the time being, you have to give yourself permission to have something that perhaps everyone around you doesn't want, or that's not how they spend their commodity or you know their resources. So it's a really interesting topic and I think it impacts people a lot. I remember important.

Speaker 2 41:56

I can't remember who the interviewer was, but this student was feeling bad that they chose Harvard over Stanford, or vice versa, and the reality is there's no guarantee that making a different choice would have produced any different results yeah, yeah, yeah, right and so I think, honoring our decisions, like we did the best that we could in that moment and you're not stuck, you and I both have kids that are in high school right.

Speaker 2 42:22

And so both of my kids are feeling so much pressure and anxiety of like, where do I go, what do I study? And I've tried to alleviate that pressure and say, try it, just because you say you want to be a special ed teacher in Alaska, which is my 17 year old son right now.

Speaker 1 42:38

Which could be awesome?

Speaker 2 42:39

could be awesome and also do it for a year or five or 10. And then you can pivot, and if it doesn't work, yes, because I think too often we put this pressure of this is your decision and this is you're stuck for the next 50 years with one decision.

Speaker 1 42:55

And you have no idea how it's going to turn out no, yes.

Speaker 2 42:59

Yeah, so to be flexible and willing to pivot and change, and it's going to turn out no, yes, yeah, so to be flexible and willing to pivot and change, and it's not.

Speaker 1 43:04

I don't like the word failure because it's just another experience. You decided that didn't work for you, or maybe it did work for you, but it doesn't now, right, and that's okay too.

Speaker 2 43:14

To me, a failure is if you don't learn the lesson right. It's like Buddhist right.

Speaker 1 43:18

Like it's like buddhist right, like it's coming back to me again and again until I get up like, oh, wow, what, what is going on here? Yes, um, tell me a little bit about your. You said you have a mentor, but the people who've made a significant difference in your life, right mentors, allies, parents, like I always love hearing that story. If this inspired you, yeah, who would be proud of the dion you are right now?

Speaker 2 43:47

oh, this is going to be a unique answer. I think the most proud person is this higher version of myself, like 20 years down the line, where she's like thank you for choosing you and the life that you want. Finally Yay, but for sure, a gentleman by the name of Dave Wilson, who was my mentor and my boss when I worked at Interface Computer School. I don't even know if they're in existence. Spokane, washington Wow, but that was my career. That was probably my first big girl job, if you will.

Speaker 2 44:26

I started in admissions and then you know I'm so wired for human connection that these students coming through my office on the more regular, I thought I want a deeper connection. So I started teaching which really aligned perfectly with my love of people and my background, and computer, so taught people how to get certified in microsoft products.

Speaker 2 44:48

This is like mid 90s access so straight like powerpoint oh my gosh what you're doing here now yeah, but he saw something in me and definitely mentored me and invested in me. That quote you don't get the best of me until you invest in me. I love Never heard that. Okay, say it again. Yeah, this is worth writing down.

Speaker 2 45:13

You don't get the best of me until you invest in me. Wow, that's powerful, and somebody shared it Ideally, like it was in a dating conversation that idea of like don't give too much until there's reciprocity. But I see that in careers, I see that in the relationship with yourself, I see it with your kids and partner, and so my point with him is he really invested in me and I just blossomed. It was like somebody sees the good in me.

Speaker 1 45:44

And it's so huge for most people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 45:48

And Pat's been one. I remember our first year at Instructure when I was over the launch of the program and you know, typically we have an executive and I said what executive? Like I know you've had this one and this one, and she said it should be you and I thought what I mean?

Speaker 2 46:08

I am an executive, but also okay, yeah, it's a shift in mindset, it is, and her seeing that in me, that my story and that my message mattered and would help elevate, that's a good little um, the women in the room helped me to see it in myself and I think that's a beautiful part of this podcast and the work that women's leadership Institute does is they see these aspiring leaders or women that are in the career development series, and it's like I see you. I see the goodness in you and I'm going to help, mentor you, I'm going to help you grow, I'm going to teach you what I've learned, and it's this continual pay it forward.

Speaker 1 46:52

Yes, cause so many of them, um, you know, we want to them to speak, we want them to introduce, we want them to participate with us and so many of them want to give back, which is so lovely, because I don't know that it was always like that for women, but these women want to give back and help people up and give space for others and I just love watching those ripple effects happen. Yes, they are Talk about impact. The ripple effect of this effects happen. Yes, they are talk about impact.

Speaker 2 47:24

The ripple effect of this, of this, of this is really amazing to watch and it's an honor to be at this stage of life and have learned what I've learned and to be trusted with that. Mentorship for others is such a beautiful pay it forward moment because people have poured into me trust. Yeah, and I love being able to help nurture these amazing women that are just a little bit behind me on the journey, but they're on the path.

Speaker 1 47:49

They're on the journey.

Speaker 2 47:51

Well, you can find her at drdeoncom Patty and I laugh about that. She's like, do you want to be addressed as doctor? I'm like, no, it's so. Do you want to be addressed as doctor? I'm like, no, it's. So. I mean, I have it and the website was available and the socials. So yeah, follow me on Instagram, facebook, I love that, yeah, linkedin.

Speaker 1 48:10

Okay. So as we wrap up, I have one last question for you, particularly because we work in the state of Utah, um, like you, said globally there's always something right with them and that could Um, like you said, globally. There's always something right with women that could. Could the gap could be shorter on what is something you taught doing is doing really well and what's something you think we're doing that, maybe we could improve upon.

Utah's Support for Women Leaders

Speaker 2 48:34

I'm going to do the improve upon because I want to end on a positive note. Sure, I think giving women more opportunities to be in leadership roles, because that balance um the masculine, feminine energy, or the different perspective that women bring to the table life experience like it's inherent.

Speaker 2 48:54

And just because they haven't climbed the corporate ladder for the last X number of years doesn't mean that what they've acquired, that skill set, that perspective, it can bring a lot of value. And why does that matter? I think about it. Well, I think about it in terms of like, from a, we're all in business to make money right. A business is so. If you have women in leadership role that bring that different perspective, your bottom line is going to increase, your retention is going to better. Employees are going to feel more engaged, supported, like do it for because it's the right thing to do, but also do it because it's good for your bottom line. It's going to make you more money, that is win-win, like there is no downside to this.

Speaker 1 49:36

I love that you brought that up. It is we. So last year we celebrated our 10 year anniversary, um, and one thing is we were talking to elevate her challenge companies who really took those principles and took them to heart millions of dollars in savings directly back to their bottom line. So, just like you were saying, it is a good principle, not just for people, retention and making a great culture and making a better product, but it can also make you more profit. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is in alignment with the business. Yes, yes, oh goodness. Well, I could talk for hours. You were delightful, delightful.

Speaker 2 50:18

I want to end with what we do.

Speaker 1 50:19

Well, yeah, anything else Okay.

Speaker 2 50:22

I want to end with what do we do? Well? Yeah, anything else okay. The other part of that is I do feel like Utah has an eye for elevating women. Okay, we have programs such as the Women's Leadership Institute and other organizations that are educating and mentoring, yes, women who succeed, like there's other organizations that are trying to make an impact, yep, and I don't know how many other states do it to the extent or as well as Utah does.

Speaker 1 50:47

So I'm very proud of our state. Yeah, I love that you said that there are many people here doing such good work. Yeah, yeah, that's a great. That's a great note to end on. Thank you.

Speaker 2 51:00

You're welcome and thank you for the opportunity to connect with you and to share my message of hope and um, I wrote down some of what like what my intentions were, and really my mantra for the last 15 years has been to be inspired and be inspiring. So I hope today that people leave feeling inspired and that I'm just a normal person that has done some massive shifts and you can too, but that's really my hope in sharing my story.

Speaker 1 51:28

Yeah, we were talking about leadership and power with my 16-year-old just last night and we were talking about taglines and she said what about the tagline? I can, because she did that's how it works, right? Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 51:48

Thank your daughter for saying that. That's the perfect little exclamation point today I can because she did.

Speaker 1 51:54

So, whatever you take away from this, those of you who are listening I hope that you know that it's possible. Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:01

Thank you.