Tonia Dalton & Brooke Eastham: Flexible Work Culture Transforming Career Paths

Could balancing a dynamic career with personal passions be the key to success? Join us as Tonia Dalton, partner at Induo Marketing, and Brooke Eastham, senior manager at CHG Healthcare, share their personal stories and how these experiences have shaped their professional lives. Tonia offers a fascinating glimpse into her past, including an unexpected stint as a psychic phone line worker, while Brooke discusses her dedication to supporting women in the workforce and her love for nail art. Together, these two accomplished women illustrate the power of diversity in the workplace and the benefits of crafting flexible environments for working mothers.

Workplace flexibility isn't just a buzzword—it's a fundamental change in how we view work, life, and career growth. This episode unpacks initiatives like the Women's Leadership Institute and the Elevate Her Challenge, which are pivotal in advancing women’s careers. Through Tonia and Brooke's experiences in executive roles, we uncover the importance of mentoring and the lifelong impact of having working parents as role models. With a focus on the advantages of remote work, we explore strategies to attract top talent from anywhere, turning distance into an asset rather than a hurdle.

Building strong professional relationships is more than just networking; it's about nurturing genuine connections that pave the way for collective success. Tonia and Brooke share stories and strategies for maintaining these connections, even amidst busy schedules. We discuss the subtle art of indirect leadership and the profound effect of acknowledging and supporting others in their journeys. Get inspired by tales of empowerment, where small acts of recognition lead to inclusivity and community strength. Prepare for an episode full of wisdom, lessons, and inspiring stories that demonstrate the true power of women lifting each other up.

www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate a Women's Leadership Institute podcast, where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate a Women's Leadership Institute podcast. Today we have two beautiful ladies, smart and intelligent. I'm so excited for our conversation. We have Tanya Dalton she is a partner in the old marketing, and we have Brooke Easton, senior manager of operations at CHG Healthcare. Welcome, ladies, thank you.

Speaker 1 0:33

Thank you, patty, we're excited to be here. Yeah, this has been in the planning for months, so it's always exciting once we get in the studio to actually chat.

Speaker 2 0:40

Absolutely yes.

Speaker 1 0:43

So I would love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself, including something personal, so we can get to know you better. It could be a favorite book, could be, like you know, we've had an award-winning yo-yo person, all kinds of things, a backup dancer for KISS.

Speaker 3 0:59

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 1:01

Nothing as exciting as that We've had someone who likes to take walks, so we span the whole gamut. I would love to have been a backup dancer for KISS. However, did not never accomplished that. I would say. Probably the most unique, weird job I ever had is I was a psychic on the psychic phone line at one point when I was in college. Really that's awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:26

So it begs the question are you a psychic?

Speaker 2 1:29

No, I think I'm intuitive. I'm very empathetic, Um, but no, I'm definitely not a psychic, which was why I ended up leaving Cause. I just felt like a fraud. But uh yeah, Um, avid reader, I love to read. I set a goal to read 83 books this year and I'm possibly going to hit it.

Speaker 1 1:44

Wow, congratulations, very cool Okay.

Speaker 3 1:48

Awesome. Well, Brooke Easton here and a little bit about me. So I am an operations manager at CHG Healthcare. I love to wear a lot of hats in my work. Variety is so important to me and something kind of interesting, I guess, about me is, well, I have three kids. I really am very passionate about keeping women in the workforce if that is something that they want to do, making it possible for, you know, moms to continue working, and making the workplace a more palatable and reasonable and flexible spot for that to happen. And I also absolutely love painting my nails and I know that that sounds like, okay, that's maybe not quite the hobby, but I mean I really do.

Speaker 3 2:41

I'm very into giving myself my own gel manicures.

Speaker 1 2:44

Okay. So I was going to ask do you do it?

Speaker 3 2:46

And I know that this is not visual, but it's just a regular manicure, but I am very on top of my nails and extremely passionate.

Speaker 1 2:55

I love that. That is a great tidbit.

Speaker 2 2:58

I have to say, when we very first met and we'll get into that later, but our very first meeting we had a one-on-one and we actually she asked me I had my nails done and we bonded over nails. So our relationship kind of began through our nails. Yeah, that's true. I love that you have to have been there to really understand it, but it's very true.

Speaker 3 3:18

There's honestly a lot to be said about methodology and nail polish, so we can get into it in another podcast definitely a different episode. Yes, sign me up for it when you're ready?

Speaker 1 3:28

I need some nail help, so good thing, my hands are down here.

Speaker 2 3:31

She's a bit of an expert. I will attest to that.

Speaker 1 3:34

Okay, and Tanya, tell us what you do for work.

Speaker 2 3:37

So I am a partner for Induo Marketing. It's a little boutique agency here in Salt Lake and we basically we're a full service advertising agency. We have clients that range from colleges to pharmacies to car dealerships and we do the full gamut of marketing and advertising. A lot of people don't know the difference between those two things, but there's quite a difference between marketing and advertising. And we're full service. We do a little bit of everything for everyone.

Speaker 1 4:07

Do you want to? And I feel like with the internet and just how everything is kind of merging it does a little good, a little squishy, and all those things. Do you want to just give us a brief overview of the difference between those things?

Speaker 2 4:18

Sure, Um, so I have a business partner and we kind of we always talk about how I'm kind of more of the marketing expert and she's more of the advertising expert. So marketing would be more just kind of general branding, event type things, a lot of internal stuff. So internal marketing amongst you know, within a company Okay, Newsletters, blogs, that kind of stuff would fall more under marketing, Although, like you said, there is a mesh. So a blog does have some SEO elements which would be more of the advertising side.

Speaker 2 4:49

I see Okay, and then digital ads, that kind of stuff would be, you know, programmatic, that kind of stuff would be more on the advertising side. But there is a mesh. You know social media, you have your organic posts which would be kind of fall under the marketing side.

Speaker 1 5:08

But then you have your social ads. That would fall under the advertising side. Yeah, very good. Thank you for explaining that. I'm sure there's someone listening who is starting out and it might not be very clear for them what it is. And, brooke, tell us a little bit more about what you do at CHG.

Promoting Workplace Flexibility for Career Growth

Speaker 3 5:17

Anything. I'm asked basically when we have, basically when there's a really big problem that that you know, that impacts our business in the in terms of marketing or our sales side, with our CRM, I am often tapped to either just talk about or lead out certain specific initiatives. So currently I lead our project team, so our project managers, I lead a couple different digital products that just assist all of our marketing efforts within CHG to make sure that we are turning out quality work quickly, and I also run our trade show team. So truly doing just as many things as I possibly can to keep that variety out, just to keep that variety in my day to day. And uh, but but yeah, I jokingly say anything I'm asked but that's because that's truly what gets me up in the morning is knowing that I have.

Speaker 3 6:28

But, that's because that's truly what gets me up in the morning is knowing that I have, you know, any number of things that I could potentially help with. And CHG is such a great company for that, because they see talent at all levels and they, you know, believe that anyone can have the answer to a problem and come up with great ideas. So this has just been the perfect position for me, and I also love leading people. I have a large team, I have several different functions and, you know, 12 people reporting up through me, and that also, you know, really gets me going to just being able to help people with their career paths and mentorship and getting people where they want to go and and making sure that people are doing exactly what they want to do or building the career in life that they want to. That's really important to me as well.

Speaker 2 7:13

She's a really great cheerleader and mentor.

Speaker 1 7:16

It's amazing. Thank you for sharing that so many things I could ask. What I want to establish first, though, is both of you have been through WLI, so you're a CDS graduate, your company signed up for the Elevate Her Challenge, and you've also taken some of our programs. Tell me why that was important to you, or what drew you to WLI and what you learned learned.

Speaker 2 7:47

Yeah, I was just going to speak to the Elevate Her Challenge. That was something that my partner, Andrea, and I did last year with Enduo. We took the challenge and it's very, it's important to us to. You know, it's kind of in the, in the, in the title Elevate Her, but that's, that's a big passion of mine. I spent a ton of my career being one of the only women, or the only woman in, uh, conference rooms and, you know, exec meetings, Um, and it's just, it's just very important to me to change that, change that scope, change that thought process of you know, we've always had a he let's, you know it shouldn't just like, uh, so that's been, that's been a big, a big passion of mine always has been and just mentoring I like to our company, not necessarily by design, but we've just hired a lot.

Speaker 2 8:34

We have two men that work for us and the whole rest of our company are women, and Brooke kind of spoke to it earlier. You know it's very important to me to support working moms, give them that flexibility so that they can have a career and still have, you know, some flexibility in their day and in their schedules, and I think Elevate Her really encompasses that.

Speaker 1 8:57

I love that. Thank you, and Brooke.

Speaker 3 9:00

Yeah, and I was lucky enough to be tapped as basically just a rising talent within CHG and we have, you know, some of our executives Carrie Norman and Leslie Snavely especially are very involved in WLI, and so we have been a company that supports WLI, and so we have been a company that supports WLI.

Speaker 3 9:30

And so somebody nominated me as a person who would really benefit from the program and so I was sponsored with a small group of other female leaders in the company to join the 2020 cohort, and it was just such an excellent and empowering situation to be in those first few months. The first three months were just so excellent Getting to be around, you know, a hundred women or I'm not even sure how large our cohort was, but it felt like a hundred women who all felt so passionate about their growth and empowering others and learning and taking in as much as we could and networking. I mean, that was one of the best things was just knowing that we were all there to get to know one another. It really bolstered our network. It was 2020. And so we had this incredible shift in the way that we which is why you said three months yeah.

Speaker 3 10:22

So the first three months were really great, which is why you said three months. We had this massive shift to the online, to doing this in an online environment, all while we were all learning. Some of us were dealing with sick family members or fear, I mean, we had this, this whole thing going on, but we were doing it together.

Speaker 3 10:56

And so we were still having these networking events and even though they changed venue so you know, going from in-person to online, we were still really able to stay connected and continue to bolster these relationships, partially and maybe helped along by this other crazy experience that the entire world was going through.

Speaker 3 11:17

But we had this great group of women that that we were just that, were still a consistent monthly meeting where we were still committed to the same things. But we're still a consistent monthly meeting where we were still committed to the same things, but we could still talk through some of these big world events.

Speaker 1 11:32

Yeah, what an interesting period right. I love what you said about being in a room with people who are just as passionate as you about the topic. There is so much synergy. That happens when women and men get in a space where they also align with what's going on, and that is an amazing thing to see over and over again, either with elevator challenge companies and the elevator luncheon or with our graduates to see, and then it's always really interesting how people go back to their companies and then apply it right, because everybody applies that passion differently.

Speaker 1 12:10

But I always really appreciate hearing what people have learned. So thank you for sharing. Yeah, appreciate that. Tanya, you mentioned that this is really important for you. The ability for women to be flexible when did that come from? Was it like an experience in the beginning, just an overall? Was it from your family growing up? Like what really solidified that for you?

Speaker 2 12:32

Probably kind of all of that I worked at. I grew up with a working mom and dad. You know they both worked and I remember some afterschool special. This is going to age me, but they did an afterschool special on latchkey kids and I was like oh, what's that?

Speaker 1 12:49

And it was like.

Speaker 2 12:50

Oh, that's me. I'm a latchkey kid and at the time, back then, I was the only one I didn't. None of my friends had moms that worked and so, um, that was just kind of. You know, that was my experience and then, when I became a working mom, I realized that that flexibility is just so necessary, and particularly for moms. I think it's changed a lot, where dads also get a lot more flexibility and need a lot more flexibility and are a lot more hands-on than they used to be.

Speaker 2 13:23

But still, I have a son that's homesick today and, you know, it's just like if I didn't, if I didn't have the flexibility. So, even even in my previous positions where I've worked in the corporate offices and and I wasn't the owner of the company, I still have always advocated, you know, for, especially and COVID really made this possible but you know for hybrids, hybrid working situations, because I do believe it's it's important to get together and be in person. I think that relationships are built that way, but, like Brooke said, they can also be built online. Yeah, um, so yeah, I would just say I just think that living that personally and and trying to raise children as a working mom, while trying to build my career, while trying to start a business and build a business.

Speaker 2 14:08

You can't do all of that if you don't have some flexibility in your schedule and in your mindset.

Speaker 1 14:14

I love that you brought that up.

Speaker 2 14:16

Yeah, I think mindset's a big part of it, because some of the older generations just don't have that mindset. It's like if you're at work you're there from eight to five and that's when you're working, and it's just not like that anymore. You know technology has changed that.

Speaker 1 14:30

Yeah, and thank goodness for most of us, right, yeah, because that flexibility is a lifesaver to still do what we want to do.

Speaker 2 14:37

Well, and maybe you know, for me Saturday mornings are my time. My everyone in my family sleeps in on Saturday mornings. I have just this dedicated couple of hours and it's just me and my computer and my coffee, and I can just get so much done. But that works for me.

Speaker 1 14:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:52

You know that doesn't. Brooke's got younger kids and Saturday mornings are crazy for her, you know. So it just it. Just it totally depends. But. But we need to work, live in a society where Saturday mornings don't work for her but they work for me, and that's OK and everyone is OK with that. So I think a lot of it has to do with a mindset shift.

Speaker 1 15:12

I will get to you in just a minute, but I want to dive down on this, especially as a business owner. What is your opinion on flexible work and offering flexible work to your employees? Right, there are some like bank tellers. Right. Right, there are some positions that are actually. No, you are here from this time to this time, but I think many jobs have a lot of flexibility. How do you approach that as a business owner? Are there any drawbacks?

Speaker 2 15:36

I'm fortunate in the business that we have, because we are a remote agency and we actually tout that when we're when we're pitching clients, because because of that we're able to go out and hire the best talent, not the closest talent. So we actually have employees down in Cedar City. We have an employee that is most often not in the country, he's all over the place, he's on a beach somewhere, yeah, and we've got people in Chicago, we've got people in California, we've got people in California. We have somebody that's in Nevada but spends most of her time in Florida. So for us it's really important.

Speaker 2 16:11

But at my previous position we did have, we had, warehouse employees and we had you know and so, and so I try to be very cognizant of that, because I understand that their, their job is physically being there and being in the warehouse, whereas the people on the other side of the building have some more flexibility.

Speaker 2 16:30

So I think it's important that you, that you offer that flexibility, but you also have to be, you also have to be cognizant of those people and not not shove it in their face, you know and um. So for me it was always kind of like I'm I'm always available, I'm always working, I probably do it a little too much. I maybe make my, but I always would make sure to always respond very quickly to things and, um, just show that I am working, even though you can't see me, very quickly to things, and just show that I am working even though you can't see me. You know, there is a pressure, and it's a pressure and, and, and I think it's a pressure I put on myself more than you know, but yeah, I, I, I, I think that for the, for the business that I'm in, it's, it's, it's imperative.

Speaker 1 17:13

I like that you position it as it is a talent strategy to offer remote. I think that's a really interesting approach to it. So, brooke, I'm going to ask you the first question of, like, what in your background made you passionate about this work and flexibility? And then I want to talk to you about, specifically, mothers that you talked about and CHG and retaining mothers, you know, during those years Happy to speak on it.

Speaker 3 17:40

I had a little bit of a different experience. I grew up with a stay-at-home mom, and I thought that that was fantastic. Of course, I, you know, I didn't know anything different. The game changer for me, though, was watching my parents go through a divorce when I was nine years old, my mom was 40 years old, had not completed college and had no job experience.

Speaker 1 18:04

Yeah.

Speaker 3 18:04

I watched her go through this. She went back to college at 40 years old. She joined the workforce a few short. She graduated in record time because she just did not have time to waste.

Speaker 1 18:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3 18:18

But she, she joined the workforce. She felt this is not necessarily true, but she felt that she did not have any opportunities other than being a teacher because she needed her job schedule to line up with her the flexibility yeah.

Speaker 3 18:34

so what that showed me is that having some amount of flexibility is an imperative. Well, what it showed me, from a really early age actually, is that it was super important to set yourself up for success. It made me very passionate about having a career first and making sure that I had something that I could return to should I want to leave the workforce to be a stay-at-home mom. I did not end up choosing to do that and I think largely because I just saw how difficult it was for my mom. It was so difficult to be later to the game, but she was able to do it. She is a great and she's an excellent teacher. She ended up getting her master's degree and she's just done absolutely everything that she could to be top tier. And you know the best educator out there she teaches junior high science.

Speaker 1 19:31

Oh, wow, shout out to Brooke's mom.

Speaker 3 19:33

Yeah. So watching that made me so passionate about about a couple of things about being able to retain a career as a parent, but then also about having some choice. I say it was sort of a perceived choice for my mom. That's. All she could really see was that teaching was maybe the only way. And, you know, in the in the mid 90 nineties, when this was going on, maybe maybe that was a little bit more of a reality. But, as Tanya said, covid changed everything and even before COVID, we're in an online, digital world. It is not true that that so many of these office jobs need to be in person. It is really it. It just isn't.

Speaker 1 20:16

I agree with Tanya where?

Speaker 3 20:18

connection is absolutely important, but I think it's really important as a leader to be realistic about what can and can't be done online. As you were saying, there are many jobs that you have to be in person because it's a face-to-face interaction that you're having, but most jobs, most corporate jobs, can be done at home or in another location, as evidenced by all of the companies that experienced record growth during the pandemic. So it's important to just say that out loud.

Speaker 2 20:55

And I will say and it's interesting that you brought this up because I don't think I'd made this connection until you just said this but, pre-pandemic, it was not part of my career trajectory and it was never going to work for me. But after I became a working mom, I used to fantasize and be jealous of people that worked in the school system, because I my perception was the only flexibility I could have in matching his schedule would be to work for the school and post pandemic.

Speaker 2 21:23

I don't believe that anymore, but I actually had that same kind of thought process that your mom had.

Speaker 3 21:28

Yeah, Well, and maybe that, and again, maybe that was the reality, maybe that actually was the reality, more or less, because whether or not it was actually feasible, that was the reality, more or less, because, whether or not it was actually feasible, that was the prevailing sentiment. And so if leadership is saying that, then that, then that is true. Yeah, um, now we've seen a different way to go about it and, um, and I'm hoping that, you know, companies can continue to, to lean into it, even though it it would be very comfortable to just have everybody return to office. I think allowing for this, some level of flexibility, is so important to keep really great, talented people in the workforce, and that's important. It's so important, it's important to our local economies, it's important for our kids to see that that, um, that you are not just defined by one thing. You're not either working or a parent. You can be both things and, um, and you know, parenting itself is absolutely hard work, but, but, but anyway, they, they don't exist separately. So it's, it is such a passion of mine.

Speaker 1 22:36

So I love that.

Speaker 1 22:38

I I definitely believe in embracing the and, but that is a a flexibility mind shift that I've had to come to over time. Um, I do think that there was a general perception about school teaching right, she could be home when your kids were there or secretaries you wouldn't have the whole load of the leadership, but you could make a living. It's really interesting because we say often that if you can't see it, you can't become it, and while that's not totally true, people become things all the time. Right, that's how we get pioneers. But I think it's so much easier when we show what it looks like.

Speaker 1 23:18

We used to drive past the capital, the Utah State Capitol, all the time, and I would take my kids in and they've seen me do things in there and talk to representatives, and I've taken my kids on marches and rallies and different things because I want them to see that this is their house, that the things that happen there affect them, and who better to teach them than me? So I love that idea of embracing the end and showing people what they can do, and CHG has a great like. They've done a lot of really great work. Kudos to Leslie for retaining women after they give birth.

Speaker 1 24:01

Yes, so it is possible and they did save money, so it's a good business strategy too, so I appreciate them leading the way in that absolutely.

Speaker 3 24:09

Chg does a great job. Two of my three children I had while being employed with CHG and they have made it such a comfortable way to come back with different programs they have. They have, you know, after maternity leave, sort of a graduated return to work where the first week maybe you work 20 hours for a couple of weeks, then 30, then 40, if that works for your team.

Speaker 3 24:40

And it's such a gentle way to return and it shows a lot of support. They also contribute to child care costs. In the last few years they've increased their benefits to include that. You know, partnering with different strategic companies to provide discounts on corporate daycares. Like these are all family forward policies that act as sticky benefits to a company and so it saves the company money. Because we want to be here, we feel supported.

Speaker 3 25:12

As a parent, I feel very supported at CHG and you know, and a lot of companies have the opportunity to do that, even without spending too much or any money, honestly, just having just being supportive and being supportive of flexibility and, you know, having a little bit of a mindset shift when people are open with you about why they might need a certain amount of flexibility, really making sure that, as a leader, you're not, you know that you're really not thinking that anything is because of kids or because of parenting and just allowing for flexibility. There's so many ways that you can be a leader who can support these, you know, friendly, female and family friendly policies without spending money. Now, of course, if you have some money to spend, I've got ideas on ideas, but there are so many ways and it's just, it's incredibly important and it saves companies money and, again, it's so good for our economy to have more people you know working and creating products and also demand for those products. I mean, we're like it's such a rich tapestry and we want to be part of it.

Speaker 2 26:25

Yeah, so well, and I think it's an important point, like you just made, it's not just about working mothers, you know it's. It's it's talent in general. You know, you're just, you're going to keep and, and and obtain better talent If you can. Those, all of those people I just listed, that work out of state for us. I think only one of them is a parent, um, you know so. So it's it. I think flexibility is important, whether or not you're a parent.

Speaker 1 26:50

Right, absolutely. And I think that the business is shifting enough that this is a great time for business to create strategy, right, it's not just a silo of let's. Let's let women come back after they have kids. It's the strategy of our. People are our biggest resource. Let's treat them well. If they have families, it's a family friendly policy Right. If they don't have, they still get access to the things that they would want and I think at a basic level, that's just very fundamentally human.

Speaker 1 27:25

But somehow, as corporations build, especially if they're old and established, it's a little bit of a turn for them to realign that and to think that way. But I love that we've brought up so many benefits of allowing that type of environment. Why do you think people resist diversity or resist? You know, because sometimes people feel a lot of scarcity around the topic of women's promotions or women got hired over me and we give full credence to. It's okay to feel that fear. You know we want it to be a really safe space for people to show up however they feel. But I think the truth actually lies in the data.

Speaker 2 28:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 28:11

And the data, without emotion or feeling or bias, says that the best candidates get hired right.

Speaker 2 28:18

Yes.

Speaker 1 28:19

Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 28:22

I think that you touched on it, and it's a scarcity mindset. It is a general fear that if somebody is winning, then I might be losing. Very binary yes.

Speaker 3 28:36

And I just don't think that that's reality. I think, when you're considering any, truly any space but we'll talk about companies in general your company has a growth mindset. They need to. That's what companies are around to do. They are growing and so approaching any environment as if it was static, as if there's only such like one number or a certain number of spots for women and you, and so it's a competition between between women or between men and women. You know it. It's, it's the scarcity mindset that needs to shift. It's not a static situation. We should be thinking about growth. The table doesn't have only a certain number of chairs at it.

Speaker 3 29:20

We can always be adding to the pie, and so that's what I think really needs to change is just a mindset shift about how much opportunity there actually is. It's unlimited, really, really it is, and you know there are so many different departments in my company today that did not exist two years ago. So to assume that there's only a set amount of opportunity and that somebody might be taking that from me is is just a fixed mindset to have, and I think that we can all agree that that we are trying to grow any. You know all of our businesses and organizations, and so approaching it that way can hopefully help people shift their mindset about, about what they perceive as as reality for what's out there for them.

Speaker 1 30:08

Yeah, and I think transparency is really important in a company, because sometimes there are fixed things, there are fixed positions, there are fixed pay, but being really transparent about that. But over here we have all this opportunity for growth and I really appreciate how you brought up not just men and women, but women and women competing too. I think that's important, tanya.

Speaker 2 30:32

I think, a lot of it is just um it's. That's how we've always done it.

Speaker 2 30:37

And I think people get stuck and you know well, that's how we've always done it. And we've talked a lot of today about the pandemic because it was such a huge change and I think that's kind of changed that, like how we always did it was people came to the office Well, we don't do always do it that way anymore. How we always did it is we had a male CEO Well, do it that way anymore. How we always did it is we had a male CEO Well, we don't always have to do it that way anymore, you know. So I think I think it's it just keeps coming back to that mindset of getting out of. That's how we've always done it, or this is the you know limited amount of opportunity that there is. It's like there's more opportunity, it's not limited and you don't have to do things the way that we've always done it.

Speaker 3 31:12

In fact, often and there's a lot of proof showing that when you change that, you know you change the structure, you change the opportunities it ends up benefiting the company and the data, as you said, shows that when you have more diversity and you know, and a better makeup between men and women on any board or leadership, yeah, the companies do better and I think that there's just a broader sense of broader ideas. People feel safe to bring up new thoughts and plans. And, to Tanya's point, you're just bringing in some new perspectives overall, You're just being more creative in some new perspectives. Overall, You're just being more creative, and so that's what I assume is part of the reason why you can see in the data that diverse boards and companies just do better. It's because of, like, so many different mindsets, perspectives and ideas.

Speaker 1 32:11

Yeah, I think sometimes people think of leadership as like upward movement, which sometimes it can be. But as you move upward, that means you know more and so you don't need more opinions at the table because you know you've already gone through it. And then I've seen some leaders realize that no, I'm a leader to embrace more people. What can we bring and do together? Right, and not that either one is bad, just leaders are different in how they apply this, and I think the humble ones are the ones who are like what's your opinion, what do you think about it? Willing to engage and take feedback, because it really is a strong business case to do it. So I'm always interested in the resistance on it.

Speaker 2 32:58

Well, and how often has someone said something to you and you say oh, I hadn't thought of it that way?

Speaker 1 33:01

Right and it's like.

Speaker 2 33:02

I mean, for me I'm always that's always like a kind of a treat, like, oh, I hadn't thought of it that way, you know.

Speaker 1 33:08

Instead of resisting it? Yeah Well, and when so many?

Speaker 3 33:19

things we could put on. That that would be fun. And how many new and interesting companies have we seen in the last 10 years that are billed as disruptors because they are taking what Tanya is saying, always doing how we've always done it, completely head on and changing the game, and that is. It's such a powerful position to be in to take on some of these. You know these old ways of thinking and completely disrupt it and embracing that is. There's some power there and I whole new industries have been.

Speaker 2 33:50

I mean, could you imagine 10 years ago ordering a mattress online? Yeah, absolutely not, or even Grubhub right, right To my home, whenever.

Speaker 3 33:59

I want Right. So we need these new ideas, no matter where they come from, honestly so.

Speaker 1 34:06

Yeah, I love that. Okay. So I think one thing that I have seen that has really helped women is the opportunity to have a mentor but more specifically, an ally, someone who sees your potential, who can open opportunities for you and kind of pave that path. I'd love to hear about an experience of yours where you felt you had an ally, or how you were an ally to someone else.

Speaker 2 34:36

I love this question because I think this defines our relationship. Like to a T Brooke and I. We met at CHG. I had asked, you know, I just started there, she was already working there and I wanted to like find out who are some strategic people that I should get to know. So I threw a one-on-one on our calendar and, like I said, we bonded over fingernail polish and our nails and it just led to this, this, this like bond beyond work kind of thing.

Nurturing Professional Relationships for Success

Speaker 2 35:05

And you know how many years, five, six years later, we're still sitting here and we refer to each other. We're allies and mentors, but we're kind of each other's wing woman. You know, I in duo sponsored a Silicon Slopes women and leader mentorship program and I had to go to this event and I didn't want to go alone. And so she's my wing woman and so we go, we attend these events together and we're both building our networks. But we're kind of doing it just kind of as a hey, I want, I want a friendly face there with me, um, but from that we've built an incredible network, um, per personally and professionally, um. So I would say, you know, she's a great example of being the ally for me, my business partner that I'm partners with, you know, and duo we started working together.

Speaker 2 36:01

The number keeps getting bigger. I've been saying 25 years. I think I've been saying that for a couple of years, so 26, 27 years. We met the first day at work. We both were working at a TV station, our first full-time jobs out of college and we worked together for about eight years and then we stayed in touch and I think that keeping in touch with these mentors and these allies one thing that I tell Brooke and we're not always good at it, but we try to like when we get together for lunch, I always say let's get the next one on the books, like, even if it's two or three months out, let's put it on the calendar.

Speaker 1 36:33

Otherwise life runs away with you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:35

And so my partner and I did that. We we stopped working together. We we kept going on walks together. We both had babies around the same time, so we would take them out on strollers and go on walks and we did that for five or six years and I was in a situation where I needed a job and she was working in agency and got me an interview and I ended up working there and we worked together and then we stopped working together and then we stayed in touch and now we own a business together and it's been. It's been a 26 year long relationship journey that started, you know, on that first day of work. So I definitely have really strong examples of allies in my life and they mean everything to me. They've put me where I am right now in my career. I love that.

Speaker 3 37:16

Yeah, I love what Tanya did at CHG, because that's something that I tell lots of people to do is ask your leader, who's important to get to know, start having 15-minute conversations here and there. If you're a shy person, you already work together, so you already have a reason to meet. It's not completely out of the blue. Make sure that you can tell yourself that.

Speaker 1 37:40

I understand being shy.

Speaker 3 37:41

I feel like I was shy for a long time and kind of came into my own sometime in my twenties or something. But. But so I do understand, but there, but you know, making those connections is so important. And then when you have connections that feel like a little, a little beyond, like how Tanya and I have really connected on many things, um, take care of those relationships, do it, uh, really consciously, as, as Tanya said, make sure that you are treating that like the asset that it is.

Speaker 3 38:11

Your network is absolutely an asset and it's just something that you can grow together. You can grow with a team, as Tanya and I have. You can also, of course, do it alone, but it is something that deserves a lot of attention and the thing is, as you do that, as you get better at it within your own company and externally, you find allies, because you find people who know you, who will speak positively about you when you're not in the room or who will say, oh, I met somebody who, who knows a little bit about that. Let me connect you with Patty. She is somebody who knows so much about the women's leadership in Utah and she's so involved and making those connections is so important and just being very broad and pointed about getting there, dedicating true time to it, is very important.

Speaker 2 39:08

And I have to say that you're excellent at that.

Speaker 3 39:10

I think that you are such a good ally.

Speaker 2 39:13

I mean, every time I show up in an event and you're there, I just feel like okay, at least I know someone here like you. You're like my little, you know my shadow wing woman when I can't take Brooke with me.

Speaker 2 39:25

But you're excellent at that, and I had something recently where I was nervous and you sent me a message and you were like you've got this and I literally took that with me too. I had to do a photo shoot and I was not comfortable and you gave me the courage and you, you're such an ally. I think that you're really good at that and you've emailed me and do it and introduce me to people, and I think that you're an excellent example of that.

Speaker 1 39:47

Well, thank you, that's very kind. I like to create safe spaces for people and in one of our very first podcasts we did, she brought up the idea of practicing leadership.

Speaker 3 40:02

And then often we don't get to practice leadership right, even coming on a podcast.

Speaker 1 40:04

Many of our podcast guests have never been on a podcast before and just the opportunity to try it out. Some of them love it, some of them are like never again, but it's always fun to have doors open up for you See if you can try it and I love what you said about it is an asset, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 40:27

And just to add on what you said about about having these leadership opportunities, I think anybody can take can take that. Anybody has an opportunity to connect people together, even if they're not direct leaders or they don't feel that they have a ton of power at work. What you can be is a connector. That is easy when you hear people asking about you know, just talking about anything. If you have somebody who might know a little bit more, connect that person.

Speaker 3 40:51

Like like be that connection point and um, and, and that's a way that you can, you know, just practice this indirect leadership, that that helps you to be an ally to others and to be seen as a connector, and and it just, it truly is just another way of networking that maybe isn't as as direct as what we think of when we think of networking.

Speaker 2 41:17

And I think it builds confidence too.

Speaker 1 41:19

I think so too. Yeah, you want to talk a little bit more about that. I think that's true.

Speaker 2 41:22

Well, yeah, I mean, if being an indirect leader, you just start to, when you start connecting people, it feels good, you know it just like.

Speaker 1 41:29

Oh, I do have something.

Speaker 3 41:30

I have something to offer.

Speaker 2 41:32

And I mean someone sent me a picture of a booth and I'm like, well, I don't need that, but Brooke might, so I'll connect you to you know.

Speaker 2 41:39

And it's like if I can give her something that might be helpful to her. Um, you know, it makes you feel good. It's just, you know, I think anytime you can do something for someone else it makes you feel good. And these are small, small little things that you can do and and you know, it's it's kind of that, that fragmented growth. It's just like if you do these little tiny things and they build on each other, um that that you can see there's a term for it um, in, in um nature, little small things that together make something really strong and I think that that as confidence.

Speaker 2 42:11

You know little, tiny steps on that will will build and boost that confidence.

Speaker 1 42:16

I agree, and I think that many women are looking for the permission to build that confidence, or they get into it and maybe it's a little hard till they stop. So I'm glad we touched on that. One thing that I've started encouraging women to do is to tap each other on the shoulder to nominate each other. So I've started encouraging women to do is to tap each other on the shoulder to nominate each other. So I've started sending awards out to people and saying who do you know? Right, cause women are very resistant.

Speaker 1 42:39

Um, we were talking with someone in St George at one of our last events and she's like you know, I have this coworker and every word she sent me and said would you recommend me? And I was like you're audacious, what no? But then she's like I was like why not, why not? And so she did, and I thought that was just a really interesting conversation. And I see the same people winning awards over and over again, which is so great. I love that, but I also want to expand that because there are so many amazing people in our state. So I'd love you guys to tell you, to tell that story of how you nominated Tanya. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 43:23

For the 40 over 40 that we have here in Utah. I have had a couple of colleagues and friends win that award, and so when nominations were coming around I know no offense, but you are not great at self-promotion, so I mean, and a lot of us really aren't. We can see so much in others that they are not comfortable saying about themselves even if they know it to be true.

Speaker 1 43:43

It feels so aggrandizing, or something it does Right.

Speaker 3 43:47

And so, with all of the work that she had been doing with recently, with Promise to Live and you know other great work that Tanya does, tanya is one of these people that always will raise her hand, she's willing to do extra work, she's willing to volunteer her time and her talents to organizations that need it, and I mean works herself to the bone sometimes and when she probably shouldn't, but that is Tanya, and so when this award, when the nomination period came around, I just thought of course someone needs to nominate Tanya you know, and this is an easy nomination for me.

Speaker 3 44:25

I like to write and communicate in general. I did not have a hard time, you know, putting together a few things, and that's something that I like doing now. Maybe I, maybe I'm just like Tanya on the other side that I don't really want to talk about myself but, but, um, I just think it's so important. I think it's important to just like, let's say, let's all just admit that we're not great at self-promotion and knowing that, be good at it for somebody else I see this in Tanya.

Speaker 3 44:56

Now that I know kind of the nomination process, I've got my eye out of who I'm going to nominate yeah, I love that this is something that I'm making it a habit of. There are many awards and awards that I mean for for lots of different things and lots of different groups, and we should be nominating the people in our lives that we know deserve it.

Speaker 3 45:16

Absolutely and because they're not going to do it for themselves necessarily and we have that power and it's so much easier to do it for somebody else than it is to do it for yourself, a hundred percent, if we can all agree to do that better then then we're all going to benefit from it. Truly.

Speaker 1 45:30

I think so. I think that's a huge lever that we don't pull very often how did that feel? I saw you getting a little uncomfortable, as she was talking about you. I know I feel flushed.

Speaker 2 45:39

Yeah, I'm horrible at self-promoting, I fully admit. I ran for office several years ago and I did not ask for help. I didn't ask anyone to go door knock with me. I just I felt like why would people want to do that? And I lost by 12 votes. And now that I have that hindsight and that perspective, I'm like people are like I would have helped, I would have helped, but I just, yeah, I won't ask for it. And so yeah, self-promoting is very, very difficult for me.

Speaker 2 46:12

And I, when we were at the award ceremony where you looked radiant, by the way, oh, thank you, um, I I had Brooke with me and and a really close friend. And then my sister-in-law and my sister-in-law looked over at me and I just think of her. She's been so successful and like you know she's, she's such a great um, you know role model and she's like you don't seem like you're having fun and I'm like I'm just nervous and I just, you know, I feel like this imposter syndrome kind of thing, and and she just said, well, I'm really proud of you.

Speaker 2 46:34

And it was just like just that one thing, like just from that one person, and it just meant so much to me and I'm like, I'm proud of me too, like why can't I say that too? You know, I mean what you, what your sister-in-law said to you.

Speaker 3 46:44

You've said things like that to me and to many others too. And so you know, passing that goodwill around and um advocacy, and you know really shining a light and talking about people for all of the good that they're doing, yeah, I, I think it's just such a miss when we assume that people will just know that you're doing a great job and and they'll just feel it it's just not how it works.

Speaker 3 47:18

We do have to be upfront about our accomplishments and the accomplishments of others, and so doing that for for others is something that we can all do. It's so much easier to do it for others and it will. You know, what goes around comes around, I assume.

Speaker 2 47:30

So it does.

Speaker 1 47:31

I love that. Thank you for sharing. Ladies, you're amazing and I could talk to you for hours, but our time is up, so I think I want to close on a two part question. How do you define success at this point in your career, because you both had different things that you've done. How are you currently defining success, and if there is one thing in this area that organizations or individuals could do to move this needle forward in this work, what would that be?

Speaker 2 48:05

Gosh, how do?

Speaker 2 48:06

I define success I know, gosh, how do I define success? I know I think this year specifically, I felt kind of an inner peace with my career and I think and it's been years and years to get there but I feel like I've accomplished a lot of the goals that I wanted to. So, and I don't want to make success be about checking off boxes it's not that it's. I think we've talked a lot about mindset today and I think that it really comes down to that mindset. Like I feel like success for me is me acknowledging some of my accomplishments and admitting them. You know, like, like Brooke said, that's I'm not good at that, a lot of us aren't. So, even if I'm not going out and shouting it to the world, even just telling myself like, hey, you, you've done a good job, you're doing this, you're, what you're doing is working, and I think that mindset of talking to myself that way self-talk- I think, is a big thing for me, you know, as far son, watch me be successful is really important to me.

Speaker 2 49:11

You know, showing him that that work ethic and and just you know he, like I have to brag my son's 14 and he, just he starts his first job this Saturday and he did it on his own and like that's just to me, like that success for me as a parent, you know, so that he's, he's got that ambition.

Speaker 1 49:30

Yeah, very cool, thank you. And one thing that might move the needle in this work we're doing.

Speaker 2 49:36

These podcasts keep talking about it, I think, keeping the conversation going. You know we have to be out front and we need to talk about it nominating people, getting more and more recognition to to women. You know whether they're at the beginning of their career or they're later in their career. I'm also with Women who Succeed, which gives scholarships to women, and it's like they haven't even started their careers yet.

Speaker 1 50:01

They're still in college trying to figure out what they want to be, because it's a whole pipeline of things.

Speaker 2 50:06

And it has to start from the time that they're little all the way up and just, I think, talking about it and keeping these conversations going, and this podcast is great for that. Awesome.

Speaker 1 50:16

Thank you.

Building Strong Professional Connections

Speaker 3 50:17

At this stage in my career I generally define I feel successful daily because I am tapped for, like as a connection point. People know that they can feel comfortable coming to me to find where they need to go next, to talk about their career, to talk about just a problem that they're having at work, because they know that I can connect them with a person, connect them with the program, or I can just talk about things and and that, and that you know what I have to say. You know essentially means something to some people and that is success to me. And I mean, how have I gotten here again? Like just lots of listening and trying to to understand people's life experiences and what they need out of work, and that's that's why I currently feel successful in my career as a leader and as just in my general, very general field of operations. That feels successful to me. Um, what can we do to move the needle? Be so open, try not to appear so busy that that people are afraid to talk to you.

Speaker 3 51:32

I think that that's something that we that's a tricky one, it is so tricky because we are all so, so busy, but truly doors are so much more open to you if you can keep these connections, like we talked about earlier. Really maintaining your network growth and these connections and seeing it as an asset is what you can do to kind of move the needle, in my opinion. But carving out time for these connection points, even when they're very minor, but so that you can be that for somebody else and so that you can you know again, help and connect and like it does so much for everybody.

Speaker 1 52:12

Very cool, so talented, so thoughtful. I've really appreciated our conversation today and the things that we've talked about. Thank you for the work that you're both individually doing in our communities and and helping the work move forward.

Speaker 3 52:26

Thank you so much for having us. Yes, thanks, patty, this was great.