Engaging Effectively in Utah's Evolving Political Scene

Join us as we welcome Liz Converse, CEO of Utah Tech Leads, who shares her inspiring journey through two decades in state and local politics. Liz offers a unique perspective on the challenges and victories women encounter in this arena, highlighting the power of perseverance and the importance of using one's voice. Discover her personal experiences and insights into the vital role the tech community must play in political engagement, particularly in Utah, where a more moderate demographic is emerging due to a young population and global influences.

Utah's political landscape is transforming, and navigating this change while holding onto traditional values is no small feat. Liz and I dive into this dynamic shift, discussing how to embrace growth and avoid divisiveness. We also explore the concept of being "keepers of the flame," stressing the importance of political transparency and engagement. The conversation reveals barriers to accessing timely information, especially for women, and draws an engaging parallel between political participation and the influence sports fans have on game outcomes.

Building meaningful relationships with policymakers is key to effective advocacy. Liz shares her experiences and advice on engaging with legislators, focusing on the power of respectful dialogue and human connection. We highlight the nuances of the legislative process and the benefits of fostering connections outside of intense sessions. This episode also covers the influence of local politics and business engagement, emphasizing how proactive participation and chambers of commerce can support small businesses and foster a thriving community. The importance of empowering women's voices in both politics and tech is underscored, with Liz's journey serving as an inspiring example of resilience and advocacy.

www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast, where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast. Today we have Liz Converse with us. She is the CEO of Utah Tech Leads. Thank you for being with us today. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so I'm so excited for this conversation. So many things this plays to our cohort of the women that we train to be politicians, to be advocates. I met you at a training you did for delegates and you taught me so many valuable things.

Speaker 1 0:45

I've never heard anyone else say so I'm like okay, we've got to get her on the podcast. That can be sometimes a problem.

Speaker 2 0:51

Me teaching people that no one else says the things that I say. But yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 0:55

Those unsaid landscapes are much of the places that we play in what we do. So, I appreciated it. So I would love you to tell the audience a little bit about who you are, and maybe something personal, and then explain to us what Utah Tech Leads does, and then we'll jump into conversation.

Speaker 2 1:14

Absolutely so. I have worked in state and local politics for the past about 20 years. I'm older than I look. I always tell people that I know I'm a tiny person I'm not a child, I promise but I've been integrated into the political community in Oklahoma, arkansas and here in Utah and I've loved every minute of it.

Speaker 2 1:33

There's something that is very both indulgent and valiant about fighting the good fight kind of a feeling, and I think that that's something that we need more women doing. Honestly, it is one of those aspects of myself that I appreciate. Obviously, we all have detractors, but but yeah, so I've been doing it for quite some time and I started representing tech actually at the Utah Technology Council in 2017, so I jumped ship from going full state employee working on public policy issues to representing the tech industry as a whole. I then worked at Silicon Slopes for a couple of years and then we spun out. Utah Tech leads. Sonny Washington and I spun out of Silicon Slopes and it's purely out of primacy. There is an absolute need for the tech community to have a voice on the Hill.

Speaker 1 2:23

Yeah, is that something that they came to you to pitch? Or you were like, hey, you need a voice on the Hill. What was that?

Speaker 2 2:29

I think it was a meeting in the middle. I'll put it that way. I'm pretty sure it was a meeting in the middle. There are a lot of individuals within the community who are more largely known, I would say, and a lot of individuals who aren't as well known, and all of them saw the need about, at the same time, to kind of wake up the sleeping giant, as it were, and make sure that there is someone who is there to work for them and work for the community.

Speaker 1 2:53

OK, thank you. And then something personal about yourself. Oh maybe favorite book, favorite movies. Like a talent you have.

Speaker 2 3:02

I had some trauma happen over the past week. My son, who is now 14, referenced the 1900s in respect to like 94 to 96. And I died inside. It was a moment for me that I did not recover from.

Speaker 1 3:18

It was a reckoning.

Speaker 2 3:19

Yeah, it's one of those moments that were burned in your brain forever of like oh no, I am old, so you know it's tricky, tricky growing old.

Speaker 1 3:28

Yeah, ok, the 1900s.

Speaker 2 3:30

The 1900s.

Speaker 1 3:31

Yeah, mm, hmm, oh. So, liz, how have you navigated politics? So what advice would you have? Like I love what you just said. You said it was indulgent and valiant and valiant what a great pairing of words.

Speaker 2 3:47

Yeah, I would say that my history in politics. I'm a little bit of a bull in a china shop. I ruffle a lot of feathers, which can be good, can be bad. I think, through my experience, the one piece of advice that I could give to any woman who's looking to get involved in any capacity would be to not stay quiet. It is not your place to be quiet. It is your place to speak up and speak out and speak for what you believe in. It doesn't mean you're always right, it doesn't mean you will always win, but it does mean that you will have an opportunity to learn and to grow and to do something good for the world.

Speaker 1 4:25

Okay. So I have to admit the part of me shriveled inside when you said that, because sometimes there are ramifications if a woman speaks up. There are absolutely ramifications. So let's follow that question up with. You said you were a bull in a china shop. How do you negotiate and manage after you've said whatever truth and I love that you said it. You might not always be right, but it's important to speak up. How do you manage the negative ripple effects that might come from speaking up?

Speaker 2 4:50

I think time heals all wounds. In Utah, women are definitely viewed differently than they are in other states and again, I come from Oklahoma and Arkansas, so I'm pretty well versed in the way women are viewed in certain capacities. But the reality of the situation is, if you stay quiet, you're not only losing an opportunity for whoever you're representing or speaking out for, but you're also losing an opportunity for yourself, and time heals all wounds. Like it's just a matter of time before people look at you differently and see your staying power and I think that's one thing that we don't talk about enough is staying power. A lot of times, the most influential people are the people that show up, and if you are consistently showing up, even if you ruffle a couple feathers, you're still the one who's there and you're the one who's willing to pitch in and help and do what needs to be done.

Speaker 1 5:40

That is such practical, great advice. I remember when I started going up on the hill to just to state my, my opinion, my voice, on some things that were really unconscionable to me, that were happening, and someone told me both that you have to show up. Politics is a long game, yep, so plan on showing up often, yep. Politics is a long game, yep, so plan on showing up often, yep. And the other one is if you're not up there representing what you want, there is someone else up there representing the opposite of what you want, absolutely. So that really is. It was really motivating for me, right? Because I always like well, someone else will take care of it. Why isn't my thing? I'm doing other things, but those are really good pieces of information, yeah.

Speaker 2 6:29

I think one of the best things that women can ask themselves is if not me, then who? And if there's an answer to that question, if there is another who? It is your responsibility to seek them out and to make sure that they know that it's on them, because there's so many people in our world who aren't aware that they have special talents or aren't aware that they have gifts that they can give to the world to make things better.

Speaker 1 6:53

Yeah, Okay. So let's talk about that for a minute, because several of our women who would run for office are like I'm not going to run this cycle because I like who is representing me? They are representing the things I care about. But to your point, both telling them thank you for doing that, supporting them, and also tapping other women on the shoulder to say it might not be me right now, but I do see that talent in you. What does that look like? How can I support you?

Speaker 2 7:21

Absolutely, and I think it's important as well that if someone chooses not to run for office or chooses not to participate in specific ways, that might make them, honestly, more of a public figure, which, I will admit, is terrifying. It does give pause, right. So you want to know, just because they're not running for office, what can they do then? Can they work closer with the person that they like on specific issues that they might be divergent on? Can they rally their neighborhood or get different groups around them to activate on specific issues that might be addressed by the person who's currently elected but might not be addressed by the next person? There are different ways to kind of fill those gaps, and if you're not focused on the future, you're not going to be planning for the outcome that you actually want.

Speaker 1 8:09

Great, great, I love that. Okay, so let's talk about our political landscape right now, in the state as we head into some major elections. Right, what do you find is contributing to the landscape? First of all, describe the landscape as you see it. Contributing to the landscape First of all, describe the landscape as you see it, and then what do you feel is contributing to what's going on?

Changing Political Landscape

Speaker 2 8:30

Absolutely. So this is the part where I'm going to ruffle feathers, and once you guys publish this, I absolutely am going to get a text me with the phrase, quite literally, what the hell? Which I have no doubt about, but it needs to be said. So Utah right now is a super majority Republican. Nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.

Speaker 2 8:48

The reality of the situation, though, is we have projections over the next 10, 15, 20 years that that's going to change, that our state is going to become significantly more moderate, and we can see it happening in different locations that we previously never would have seen that happen with right.

Speaker 2 9:03

So Provo went blue for the first time, which was really unnerving, and now Provo is cut up like a pie for its representation.

Speaker 2 9:11

So that happens a lot in any supermajority state. It doesn't matter who holds the supermajority, but when you go through a supermajority, who's losing power and a redistricting cycle, you can see things get carved up, and it can be really, really disheartening, and that is definitely one of those things that we don't want to continue that disheartening. It doesn't change the fact that our state is changing, and our state is changing rapidly. With a young demographic, with a young population like we have, you cannot expect things to stay stagnant. It's just not going to happen. So we have a lot of in-migration different people who are moving in from different parts of the country, but we also have a lot of birth and a lot of exposure, worldwide exposure in ways that we didn't have before. 20 years ago, every single person wasn't necessarily connected on the internet and every single person didn't have a smartphone, and we can learn so much more these days than we ever have been able to before.

Speaker 2 10:08

And there are going to be a lot more people who are taking up that banner to learn about specific issues and different things, and that's going to change the political landscape in Utah, and I think that reality is why we're seeing some of the social wars that we're seeing right now.

Speaker 2 10:23

It's people who are looking to message to people who are like-minded in a way that attracts attention and gives them support, because they can feel the erosion happening and are trying to figure out not only how to retain power but how to retain the type of state that they want to have.

Speaker 1 10:42

Yeah, and I don't think this is just a politics thing. I feel like this is a universal thing as far as growth.

Speaker 2 10:48

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 10:49

Like there are things that we want to retain, either in our lives, our state, our families, whatever it is, because we felt they were good and we wanted to keep them. But I love Natalie Gochner has often said you know, we're keepers of the flame, but we have to say how do we keep that while moving forward, we can't stay where we are. So how do we embrace change in a good way? And I think anytime we try and hold on too tightly to anything like you're saying, it just causes dissent amongst so many people.

Speaker 2 11:20

It absolutely does, and I think that that's a beautiful quote the keepers of the flame. But we also have to make sure that that flame isn't burning anyone unintentionally and making sure that, like we all get to keep that flame together, we all get to. You know, the training is because it was just right after that and I'm like well, how do I even find the information where I'm at? Because it's changed and it's on the state parties to provide that information and the vast majority of the time they don't until way late in the game, which is why especially women, like so many of us, are like I didn't realize it was two days from now and I have X.

Speaker 1 12:19

Y and Z already scheduled.

Speaker 2 12:22

So if I do this, then this has to fall through the cracks, and that's the kind of negotiation that so many of us go through.

Speaker 1 12:28

Yes, as a marketer and a communicator, that does drive me crazy, right, because I'm like who they need marketing arms, but I think sometimes they do it on purpose. Yes, yeah, can I say that I don't know? Yes, and I'm talking about you know? Say that I don't know? Yes, and I'm talking about you know, all parties involved. Just, my belief is that the more people know and can get engaged, the better off we all are.

Speaker 2 12:53

I agree. Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure political parties agree, but I agree with that.

Speaker 1 12:58

Well, and one thing you said, too, is right there, clubs like they're, they're not regulated and they can do whatever they want.

Speaker 2 13:05

They have every right to.

Speaker 1 13:07

they have every right to, and we as the people have allowed that. Yeah, so we really can't. I mean, we can't get mad about it, but we've also, like, bought into this system. Yes, so if we want to do something about different, then we should, like you said, show up, have a voice, all those kinds of things.

Speaker 2 13:22

Yeah, dinners at our house are very similar in that you get what you get and you don't throw a fit Totally, because if you didn't make it and I made it, then you're going to eat whatever I made Versus you know, if you didn't like, lobby against or for or run for office, then you weren't politically engaged, and you get what you get.

Speaker 1 13:41

It's like that Brene Brown quote about, only the people who are in the fight get to get to criticize you or say anything. Yep Right, not the, not the bystanders, but the people who are actually doing the work.

Speaker 2 13:54

Yes, absolutely. And I can tell you, as an avid college football fan, I can scream at my TV all I want and it doesn't change anything. And we do yes, absolutely, but it doesn't change anything. And we do yes, absolutely, but it doesn't change anything on the actual field and I never, ever expect it to either.

Building Relationships for Effective Engagement

Speaker 1 14:08

That is a great analogy. Okay, I love it so seriously. I could listen to you all day. Okay, so we talked about the landscape For those who are just coming into the state, because part of what we've seen in our political development cohort is just teaching people the process, yes, and who the players are, and what it even looks like to get prepared to run or engage, like I've taught up at the capitol. Um, part of what I used to do is teach people who come to the capitol how to put their voice in a place that matters, like maybe what you really care about is in the rules committee and it's never going to get out of the rules committee, like who's on there? How do you say it? And it's not like going up to them and just yelling at them Like that is one way and you can do that, but that's not really the most effective way.

Speaker 1 14:59

So how do they kind of learn that process and engage?

Speaker 2 15:04

I think my first advice would be to watch all of Parks and Rec. It is exactly the strange personalities and the weird town halls Like. A town hall is a great example of a caucus night. Which is most people's first entrance into Utah politics is attending their caucus night.

Speaker 2 15:21

It's terrifying and weird and you never know what's going to happen in it. Like which is most people's first entrance into Utah politics is attending their caucus night. It's terrifying and weird and you never know what's going to happen in it. But I, so that I mean honestly, I would say people should watch Parks and Rec, but I I think they should build relationships. The legislative session, for instance, it's only 45 days long.

Speaker 2 15:42

Yeah, if those people are meeting you for the first time two weeks into a seven-week session, they don't know who you are. They don't know if you're a constituent or not. They don't know if you're being paid to lobby. They don't know anything about you. So, even if you're not necessarily concerned in this moment about a specific issue, it's still on you to build those relationships with different legislators, different policymakers, your city council, your mayor it doesn't matter who.

Speaker 2 16:06

And that doesn't require money. That just requires a text or a scheduled meeting, just introducing yourself. It is the number one thing that you can do to bend people's ear in a way that's going to be effective is just introducing yourself. They're so used to being attacked, they are so used to being attacked, and regardless of political party, if you attack a legislator, you attack the legislature, you attack every single one of them, and they will defend each other until their dying breath. It does not matter. But if you say, hey, my name is so and so I hope you have a great Thanksgiving, yes, it's a completely different introduction than hey, what the heck is wrong with you?

Speaker 1 16:45

Why are you running this terrible piece of?

Speaker 2 16:47

legislation. How dare you and of course they're going to be have their, you know hackles up and defensive, but building the relationships is the number one thing. And I will also say that their emails and their phone numbers are publicly listed and you can reach out to any of them at any time and they will take the time to listen and to have those conversations with you.

Speaker 1 17:09

Yeah, it's been so interesting that, as we teach women to engage, they do engage, and then they're like, oh my gosh, they called back, they emailed back Now, now, what do I do? I was expecting them not to engage with me, so that was also a really beautiful thing to watch, too is most of them are really quite responsive when you reach out to them.

Speaker 2 17:29

Yes, absolutely the elected officials across the state. There's the overarching political shift that's happening away from the super majority and not even away from the majority guys, just to give you a heads up away from the super majority.

Speaker 2 17:43

But when it comes down to the individual level, when you're talking person to person, everybody wants to do good work. It's not that they want to hurt people. Sometimes, like with the keeping of the flame, they don't understand that they might be hurting someone and they just need someone to be like hey, just so you know, this could be bad for this group or this is going to be great for this group.

Speaker 2 18:06

Positive reinforcement always helps. There's lots and lots of different policies and laws that are going into effect across the state that are good genuinely good for growth, good for the future, good for infrastructure, good for all of those things, and if you're able to reach out with a positive interaction, that can help even more. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 18:25

It's so interesting because it really just comes back to like human dignity. They're not paid Well, they're not paid enough, they're definitely not paid and they work way harder than the 45 days right there, at least for us. They're always showing up, they're giving up their time, they're meeting with people.

Speaker 2 18:43

Yeah, we call it a part-time legislature, but it's a full-time job?

Speaker 1 18:46

Yeah, for sure. So I love how you said a thank you or have a great weekend or appreciate the job you're doing. You know, just building that relationship is a no brainer, but also it is the best thing that you can do.

Speaker 2 19:00

Absolutely, and adulthood is hard, making new friends is hard, everybody has busy schedules, but a single text or message can mean the world to somebody, both on the elected side and on the unelected side, and they know that, which is one of the reasons why they try to be so responsive.

Speaker 1 19:17

So let's just take a moment here to talk about the timeline. So I think your point about the legislative session and dropping in right in the middle you absolutely can do and that's your right to do. Yep Might not be the most effective, correct, but there is something called the interim Yep, which are we still in? Yes, does it go in?

Speaker 2 19:36

November. Yes, okay, I mean honestly. So they're allowed to take breaks whenever they want to, or schedule it or need to. So technically, interim is any time that's not January to March, but they don't always have interim meetings during those time periods. So often if there's a gaggle of national conferences that a bunch of legislators will go to, they will either move their interim meetings or cancel those interim meetings and then just kind of load up the next agenda. But yeah, attending interim is a great example. And I'm a particular kind of nerd.

Speaker 2 20:08

I love policy, I love the law in ways that most people would give me side eye, for I would say but it is one of those things that you walk into one of those meetings and you realize how punishingly boring they are, absolutely Exactly, and you can no longer give an elected official crap for potentially like texting a constituent or reading through their email, because you are also desperate for anything else to do to keep you awake, so that you're not so disrespectful that you're falling asleep. I have seen many, many different times legislators who are just trying to get through their committee meeting and it's so important for other people to understand what that's like and at Utah Tech Leads during the legislative session we actually do a job shadowing program, so we do two different shifts. So you can sign up for a two-hour shift and we assign you a legislator and you get to go live the life of a legislator for two hours.

Speaker 1 21:09

And it is. I think you should say that again, Like everybody listening to this, should take this opportunity.

Speaker 2 21:14

Absolutely, and it's free and open to the public.

Speaker 1 21:15

So anyone can?

Speaker 2 21:16

do it? How do they sign up? You just go to our website, utahtechleadscom and you get to spend two hours with a legislator and that two hour period the vast majority of the time people coming back or who we get feedback from is. I learned so much about what their work actually entails, because somebody might be handling 20 pieces of legislation, working with 60 different interest groups and they're stuck in a committee meeting. That isn't any of the things that they're interested in, but still is vital and important work. Like you need to vote on the DHHS budget, even if you're not necessarily specializing in that. It needs to be that balanced, but it is. It's an interesting experience and hopefully in the next year or so we're going to flip that and take some policymakers and legislators and have them job shadow some of our C-suite folks.

Speaker 1 22:06

That is brilliant. I love that. That is the nugget. Thank you for sharing that, of course, so we talked a little bit about this, but where do you feel the most significant political shifts are currently and how do you think that will impact the upcoming legislation that might be passed or might be being talked about?

Speaker 2 22:25

I will preface this by saying I hate national politics with a burning fiery passion, always, or just recently.

Influencing Local Politics Through Engagement

Speaker 2 22:34

Always, okay, it's always. I grew up in Oklahoma City. I was there for the Oklahoma City bombing. The Clintons showed up. There was a lot of really positive buzz around national politics growing up, which, of course, six months later was immediately dashed by the whole Monica Lewinsky scandal, and that was when I kind of just like threw my hands up and was like screw it, these people are all awful. However, that being said, national politics has such a huge impact on state and local politics and policies that elections matter more than people realize. They do. Both national and local yes, both. If you vote for president and you don't vote to retain a judge, I hope you know I will haunt you Like that. I'm just going to say it. I'm coming for you. We all have vote by mail. At this point. We have that as an option to us. You can get your ballot. You can take the time to research who these people are.

Speaker 1 23:31

So wait, let's clarify, because voting for president is the easiest thing. Yes, it is Absolutely. And you're saying continue the process and All the way down, all the way down.

Speaker 2 23:40

Through the amendments, through everything, through the ballot initiatives, every single bubble should be filled in somewhere. And by not filling in that bubble, you're recusing yourself, right? You're saying, oh no, I'm not going to participate. But by saying you're not going to participate, that also means you're not going to participate in democracy and therefore you get what you get.

Speaker 1 24:01

Yeah, don't throw a fit Like it all comes back to that Exactly.

Speaker 2 24:06

And I think so once we see how the upcoming election lands, whatever that may be and like Utah's red, it's going to go red. There's no question there. But it does mean that there might be policy changes or shifts that we see in the numbers of how red Utah goes, and that is a really good indicator to current elected officials on how people are feeling about specific issues. For example, utah is incredibly supportive of Ukraine in the war against Russia Incredibly supportive. That doesn't make any sense in the political atmosphere that we live in. On the national level. Most of our national folks are against sending support and money for Ukraine and here in Utah you have volunteers gathering up supplies, sending themselves, raising money, doing everything they can, and that's one of those things that you can see that shift happening right and we have a lot of majority legislators who are also incredibly supportive of Ukraine. A big part of that, I think, is the service that Utahns often provide outside of the state outside of the country, they get very familiar with different areas of the world.

Speaker 2 25:16

I have a cousin who actually served in Russia and was removed, not during this most recent conflict, but one before. And she comes at it from an angle of what are they doing, like? What do they think they can accomplish by invading Ukraine? Like even someone who served there is like this is not, this is not OK, this is not normal. So it's it's interesting in the fact that our national politics definitely have a sway on our conversations, but more often than not, once the dust settles, they do not have a sway on the policies that we take.

Speaker 1 25:51

Interesting, okay. So let's just break that down a little bit. If I heard you right, what you said is I get my neighborhood together because I'm like, oh, there's a war in Ukraine, there's casualties, I want to help. I get a bunch of stuff together and I send it in the name of service, which is great, but it's also attached to politics, absolutely, and I perhaps might not understand the ramification Correct Of my actions. Yes, because I am just looking at it through one lens.

Speaker 2 26:18

Yes, and in Utah you're not judged as harshly for doing that kind of organizing. In other states you would definitely be judged more harshly.

Speaker 1 26:27

It would look like a statement.

Speaker 2 26:29

Yes, it would look like a statement, rather than no. This is just what we do as a people Right, which is the fact in Utah. This is just what we do as a people. It's what we come from, it's what we want to be. We want to be better people, we want to help other people. So, yeah, so that's one of the reasons why, like the national dialogue, you hear a lot of fighting. You hear a lot of backbiting a lot of contention a lot of really negative conversations are happening.

Speaker 2 26:59

I mean, we recently went back to advertisements and it is wild how many political ads are on TV. And that was intentional, because we haven't watched ads in such a long time and if we record it, we just skip straight through them, right? But that isn't the same contention that people feel when they're interacting with elected officials here, and I think that it's really really important for people to understand that national politics is big and flashy and fun and stupid, and sometimes you just need to get in a Twitter fight, todd Weiler, but sometimes you you really need to take yourself out of that, because those aren't the people who are fixing your potholes. Those aren't the people who are deciding what teachers to hire.

Speaker 2 27:37

They're not the people who are making those kinds of day-to-day decisions that impact your life, and every single thing that you do is political. It might not be party-oriented.

Speaker 1 27:48

People will fight back against that, but I believe that it is.

Speaker 2 27:51

You can't have the food that you eat or the food that's in your fridge without regulations. You can't drive roads without taxes, like it's. All of these different things that tie in that people don't always understand and aren't always willing to admit, especially in an environment that is so negative right now.

Speaker 1 28:07

I like that you called that out, because I think that that is true. You know it's all about narrative right For national politics, getting to the narrative, keeping people in the narrative you want them to be in, but that that is separate from our local politics Because, like we've just said, you know, many of them are, while they do have opposing opinions on many things, are happy to engage. It's not the same type of what's the word? Conflict perhaps?

Speaker 2 28:36

Yes, Well, I live in Salt Lake, and so we have community councils, which are often the bane of every single person's existence, but they're also incredibly important because they're that touchstone for an elected official right.

Speaker 2 28:49

So an elected official can have one to like six different community councils in their area and they can't talk to all thirty five, forty, five thousand people, but they can talk to their community council and find out exactly what's going on, what the complaints are. So it's important to show up to the absolutely awful community council meetings again, even if it's just to be positive.

Speaker 1 29:11

I love how honest she is. She's just honest. I love it.

Speaker 2 29:13

I can't help it I have a hard time not being brutally honest, but we're okay. So we are getting in Poplar Grove, we're getting a roundabout and people are losing their minds and they don't know how to drive on the roundabout. Our road is. We don't even have the roundabout community council meeting or like.

Speaker 1 29:30

Hey, I actually like that.

Speaker 2 29:30

Thank you for slowing down traffic right in front of my house. That's great. It means the world to someone who's just been yelled at for hours and hours and hours and it can change the opinion and it can change leadership. It can do all of these different like domino effects down the road that you saying one nice thing can change everything.

Speaker 1 30:12

Okay, I love that example Because it goes back to like, psychologically we are wired to not change, right To keep ourselves safe, keep ourselves in environments we understand, but really we keep having like it will change. Like you said, our population is changing. Generations coming up are very different than generations that are currently leading in most places. So, yeah, showing up is a huge thing.

Speaker 2 30:36

And I think what you said about safety and change is incredibly important because so many of us forget that change can be safer for us. Like with the roundabout, there aren't going to be as many kids hit on our road. There aren't going to be as many kids hit on our road. There aren't going to be as many car accidents on our road, our UTA bus, which twice a year, plows into somebody right at our intersection. That's not going to happen. There are small things that are change and are dramatic and in our brain, are really hard to wrap ourselves around.

Speaker 1 31:05

We think all change is bad, but it's not Exactly. It's not.

Speaker 2 31:07

So often. It really is for everybody's benefit.

Speaker 1 31:10

Yeah, and it's just opening up to that, because legislators don't know everything Correct and most of them know that. So to come in and say, hey, like you obviously have an opinion about this roundabout and the safety of it, and to share that is important. Absolutely the road going in the back of my house. Like there's 40 kids right here. What are you going to do to protect them? They might not have thought about that because they don't live on my road.

Speaker 2 31:34

Exactly.

Speaker 1 31:35

So those are all really good perspectives to get in the mix of democracy and have the conversation.

Speaker 2 31:41

And so often you also don't think about who's making those decisions. So, like in the situation of your home where you have that ramp right there, that's a state decision. That's not your city folks, that's not my community council.

Speaker 2 31:53

Exactly, that is not your community council, yeah, but it is one of those things where you can give feedback to your elected official and say hey, I know that this is a UDOT project and you're probably not on the Transportation Committee, but I wanted to let you know this is how I feel, because that specific feedback can really impact how that person moves forward with their policymaking.

Speaker 1 32:14

And it's okay to tell them more than once.

Speaker 2 32:16

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 32:18

Yeah, that is a great point, because often people don't know where to go, at what level to take their concerns and so, like you said, take it to community council. It's not heard there, so they're like, well, nobody cares. You know, blah blah, I didn't mean blah blah.

Speaker 2 32:34

Sometimes that's how you feel. That's how you feel yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1 32:36

Because you don't know where to go, and so you're like I'm just going to move out of state or I'm going to stop participating, because it really doesn't matter anyway.

Speaker 2 32:43

And that's the problem. The lack of participation is such a huge problem. Yeah, if you take yourself out, the vacuum will be filled, most likely by someone who does not agree with. Who threatens to most recently take a gun to our local kids park? It's crazy, it's crazy, but if you're not there to speak against the crazy, the crazy wins whatever their blend of crazy. Exactly.

Speaker 1 33:08

Exactly Okay. So we've talked a lot about individuals. I want to pivot because also part of our work at the Women's Leadership Institute is companies and helping companies engage. One of the parts of our elevator challenge is helping women run for office. I have seen companies come up and lobby for things and have employees come up. Companies come up and lobby for things and have employees come up. How do companies get involved in politics? Should they get involved in politics? What does that look?

Speaker 2 33:37

like. I will say this unequivocally Companies absolutely should be involved in politics. We cannot have an economy without the backbone of our companies, and without an economy, there's no taxation. Without taxation, that's where you see the trickle down in the opposite way. There's no roads, there's no schools, there's no emergency services, there's no, nothing right. So companies absolutely should be involved politically.

Speaker 2 34:01

The vast majority of the time, they don't always know how, especially if they're smaller. So if you have less than 100 employees, so often they just feel stuck. They don't know who to talk to, they don't know who to reach out to, which is why, honestly, chambers of commerce exist, and so Utah Tech Leads. We are a 501c6 Chamber of Commerce Trade Association. That's a whole lot of words that people don't understand, but the vast majority of the time, if you just reach out to your chamber, even without joining, they are there to offer you support and they can tell you oh, this specific issue that you're upset about is being handled at this level and you should contact this person.

Speaker 2 34:37

And it is such a vital resource. It is the yellow pages of policies and decisions because, realistically, in 2016, when Trump came into office, he enacted some tariffs that we still have today. Those tariffs were incredibly detrimental to a very specific subsection of manufacturers. So what we were able to do is take that feedback and then take that feedback to the federal government and get some of these different issues and specific tools exempted from the current tariffs. And they are still exempted today. And that is the functionality. Like people aren't there to hurt you, they're there to do what they think is the best for the broadest amount of people.

Speaker 1 35:23

The information they have.

Speaker 2 35:24

And if they find out it's hurting you, there's ways to fix that as well, and that that can be from the individual, that can be from a corporate level, it does not matter. They are there to help and the only way to help is for all of us to succeed on the individual and the company level. A lot of times, your larger companies will ask around and end up hiring a lobbyist.

Speaker 1 35:44

Yeah, have a formalized.

Speaker 2 35:45

Exactly, I'm a registered lobbyist. I do lobby on behalf of the community as a whole, as well as some other specific companies, but it doesn't change that I'm there to help and there is an entire lobbyist list. If you're ever curious, it's lobbyistsutahgov.

Speaker 1 36:00

If an issue comes back like this past legislative session there were a couple of companies that had never participated in the legislative process, but there are a few things that they're like. I have to say something, I have to do something. Are there contract lobbyists that they could be connected with? Yes, okay, yes, is that the list that you were referring to?

Speaker 2 36:28

Yeah, you can look at that list see who they represent. You will have a lot of lobbyists who represent 25 or more companies.

Speaker 1 36:35

Sure.

Speaker 2 36:36

They are normally very effective and very good at what they do, but they can also be overwhelmed, so I wouldn't necessarily suggest one of those lobbyists for specific people, okay, but there are so many different people who are willing to support and help change, and reaching out to your chamber is going to be a big part of that.

Speaker 1 36:52

And with that because, like I said, when I was on the Hill I saw employees come up. Would you suggest that these companies shout out to the Salt Lake Chamber? And Ginger right?

Speaker 2 37:03

Ginger's phenomenal. She's phenomenal.

Speaker 1 37:05

Not all chambers have those resources, so would you suggest that companies get like a government relations person or teach someone how to testify, or have that in-house that talent?

Speaker 2 37:18

I think that you should always teach people how to testify, especially your higher ups, especially if they are already going to be thrown into situations where they're their spokesperson for the company. I think everyone deserves that training on how to be thrown into situations where they're their spokesperson for the company. I think everyone deserves that training on how to be professional. And it's super unnerving. At no point do you go up and like even now, I've done it for years and years and years. But even now you know you sit down at the chair and you sign in your name and you write who you're representing and your heart is going a million miles a minute and the first word out of your mouth is super shaky and like, almost like opera vibrato. You know, you can feel it and you're like I'm not doing this intentionally, but it's that necessary step right is to testify. So I think everyone should be trained on how.

Speaker 1 38:03

Even if your voice shakes.

Speaker 2 38:04

Exactly, exactly On how to do those kinds of things. I don't necessarily think that every company needs a government relations person. I don't think that especially the smaller companies need to be worried about that, but they do need to be engaged, they do need to be paying attention. There's always business regulations that we're dealing with up at the Capitol. There's always business regulations at the city level.

Speaker 2 38:25

Right now, zoning is a really hot issue. So if your company isn't getting as much business because the zoning puts you out in the middle of nowhere, next to no one, and you're like I sell burgers, why can't I sell burgers to the three people who work at this industrial park? That's a zoning issue, right, and so that makes a huge, huge difference for those companies. But if you don't know that, if you're not informed, you don't know where to go and you don't know who to be referred to. And, to Ginger's credit, there are so many times where, if the chamber is speaking out for or against an issue, ginger will organize different companies and different employees to come and testify on behalf of their own company. And that is huge too, because these people love knowing who's in their district. They love interacting with different companies and small business owners. They love talking to founders. They genuinely enjoy it.

Speaker 2 39:17

And it's kind of weird sometimes People are really uncomfortable because they're like, oh, I'm going into a knockdown, drag out, fight. And the person's like, oh, that's really interesting, tell me more about that. And it's. You're just kind of caught unaware, right Like you're, like I. This is not what I prepared for. I prepared for you screaming at me, but the reality of the situation is it's that one-on-one individual relationship building that makes such a huge difference. And imagine if every single legislator had at least one company in every different industry from their district that they could text and be like "'Hey, can you take a look at this bill? "'and let me know if it's good or bad'". Yeah, because they are not That'd be invaluable to both. They don't have staff, they're not professional politicians. Utah doesn't do it that way.

Speaker 1 40:01

We ask a lot of them.

Speaker 2 40:01

Actually, we do. We ask a ton of them and we ask them to reach out to they would, and they do, regularly.

Speaker 1 40:16

Yes, becky Edwards often talked about a lady in her district who I think it was birds that would always talk to her about like oh, you know this bill is coming across. Did you realize it has this impact on the environment, specifically about these birds? So after you know years of these conversations, when a bill would come up, becky would be like I know who to talk to Yep.

Speaker 2 40:41

Let me see if it hits the birds. Let me see if it hits.

Speaker 1 40:43

Yes, and I love that example because it was so simple and the lady didn't do anything except what she cared about Yep, but she engaged on what she cared about.

Speaker 2 40:52

Exactly and she made a change, a genuine change. Yeah, because I can't tell you how many times people like Becky Edwards, who was one of the founding members of the Women in the Economy Commission. She made small changes to pieces of legislation for a better impact.

Speaker 1 41:08

Yeah, yeah, okay. So I have two more questions for you. Let's dive specifically into the tech sector. Silicon Slopes and the tech has been a huge impact on Utah over the past several decades. I don't even know how long, but what are some of the things they're looking for from the legislature as far as like growth in the state?

Speaker 2 41:38

Absolutely. A lot of it has to do with quality of life issues, so the vast majority of the time they're not looking at social issues. They really don't care about social issues. The community as a whole is very libertarian in that respect, like if you just stay out of my bedroom, I'll stay out of yours. Whatever happens happens, yeah, but they really care about things like housing affordability, and we're not talking about like high density stuff. Most of the time. We're talking about single family homes that people can purchase and live here. It's incredibly hard to retain talent.

Speaker 2 42:09

So we might get all of these phenomenal graduates who want to stay in Utah and who want to work here and who love the state, and we can't find a place to have them live. That is incredibly difficult. It's also incredibly difficult when we are recruiting folks to come to Utah and it just so happens to be January or February and the air is so thick you can shoo it. That's a huge problem for us. So how do we resolve that issue? It's not necessarily by taking cars off of the highway, but it is by getting more people into mass transit. So our companies care about transit access and you have to kind of connect the dots right.

Speaker 1 42:47

So housing affordability, transit access, environmental, issues and they'll have to work together Always.

Speaker 2 42:53

Yes, they do. They absolutely do, because we're talking about building what Utah is going to look like for the next 50 years.

Speaker 2 42:59

And they want Utah to be successful and they know that these are the pinch points they're experiencing. The one social quote unquote issue I would say is diversity legislation. They are very concerned about anti-diversity in our companies and it's very much a. If the government wants to handle government issues, that's fine. They do not have a problem with government operations eradicating DEI within their own scope. But they really just don't want that to be invaded on the private sector. Like like you keep your house, we'll keep our house and we'll all call it good.

Speaker 1 43:33

Now I just would ask you to clarify diversity, because so often in this conversation it means different things to different people. So just clarify that when you talk about it.

Speaker 2 43:42

Well, and I think that's one of the cool things about the word diversity. It's been vilified a lot lately, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have hiring targets, like we have to have this many people of this kind of people on this specific board or in this specific C-suite. It's not that. Diversity can mean socioeconomic diversity. It can mean diversity of thought. It can mean diversity of background. It means allowing more people to engage in building a company or a product so that that company or product is applicable to even more people, and that is just financial success, right? Like the more people who want your thing, the more you're going to make from selling your thing, and so the best way to build a thing that everybody wants is to have everybody's input.

Speaker 2 44:28

And it's really similar to the public policy right Like the more people who engage, the better policy we have. Absolutely, and that's how our corporate structures really see diversity. The more people engaged, the better off we all are.

Empowering Voices in Politics and Tech

Speaker 1 44:39

Okay, awesome, thank you. So we need to wrap up, but I would like to ask if there's anything we haven't talked about that you would like to share from your time in politics, from your perspective as a woman, from your time engaging in the tech industry. What would the last thing you want to say be? According to that, Don't be afraid.

Speaker 2 44:59

There are people who've been there, who've done it, who've been there before you, who you can ask advice of. There are people who you can commiserate with. There's a specific group of women. If you're ever interested, feel free to reach out. My email is all over the Internet. But don't be afraid, because no matter what your views are, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum, your voice is necessary.

Speaker 1 45:27

I love it. Thank you. I think that's a powerful piece to end on. Thank you for coming and sharing your voice, for showing up, for doing some work that I'm sure is hard and that you get a lot of flack for, but I, for one, have definitely benefited from what you've taught me, and what you've taught me I have shared with others who also didn't know. So the ripple effects are in full effect.

Speaker 2 45:50

That's fantastic, and thanks for having me. I really appreciate it Absolutely. Thanks, liz.