Jenny Teemsma : Navigating Maternal Leave, Generational Differences and Career Success

Ever wondered how the corporate world can be a catalyst for women's leadership? Join us as we host Jenny Teemsma, the dynamic Director of Communication for the Larry H Miller Company, in a conversation filled with eye-opening insights and personal triumphs. She gives us a compelling look at the company's groundbreaking initiatives like the ElevateHer Challenge and the Gail Miller Women's Leadership Group, revealing how they empower women to rise to leadership roles and offer mentorship opportunities that foster professional growth.

Navigate the complexities of parental leave and reentry into the workplace with Jenny's heartfelt story about her experiences at the Larry H Miller Company. Gain insights into their comprehensive maternity policies, the emotional and logistical hurdles of returning from maternity leave, and the profound importance of supportive leadership. Jenny speaks candidly about how her boss, Amanda, played a crucial role in helping her maintain a balanced approach to work, ensuring she could thrive both personally and professionally. This segment not only sheds light on corporate policies but also provides invaluable advice for anyone undergoing similar transitions.

Finally, explore the multifaceted world of interfaith relations and generational diversity in communication through Jenny’s rich experiences. From her time working with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to her insights into the evolving workspace post-COVID-19, Jenny delves into the importance of flexibility, authenticity, and mentorship. Learn practical strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome, the significance of personal growth, and the universal principles of leadership that transcend industries. This episode is a treasure trove of inspirational stories and actionable strategies designed to elevate your leadership journey.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast, where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast. Today we have one of our alumni with us, excited to have Jenny Teamsma. She is the Director of Communication for the Larry H Miller Company, so welcome, thanks for having me. Yes, glad to have you here To introduce. Would you tell us a little bit about your role at Larry H Miller and then share something personal about you so we can get to know you?

Speaker 2 0:38

Sure, yeah. So at the Larry H Miller Company, I am on the Corporate Affairs team. I work with Amanda Covington, who's our chief corporate affairs officer.

Speaker 1 0:48

Love it.

Speaker 2 0:48

And I work on an incredible team. We handle all communications and marketing for the Larry H Miller Company.

Speaker 1 0:56

That sounds like a big job yeah.

Speaker 2 0:58

And we have a lot of different platforms and businesses and divisions within the Larry H Miller Company. Different platforms and businesses and divisions within the Larry H Miller company. So I get to support all of those, from sports and entertainment to real estate, to senior health, and then I also support the Miller Family Foundation and their philanthropic work and with their communications efforts.

Speaker 2 1:18

So, yeah, I get to wear a lot of different hats and work on a lot of different projects and I'm constantly learning and growing and surrounded by really talented people, and I love what I do.

Speaker 1 1:31

I love it. And what's something personal that you want to share with us?

Speaker 2 1:34

Okay, fun fact, I won the National Future Farmers of America Marketing Plan Competition of America marketing plan competition. Marketing blue diamond almond butter. And that is how I knew I wanted to study public relations in college. So I did that in high school and kind of set the path for my career.

Speaker 1 1:56

Okay, so I need a follow up question on this. Okay, so Future Farmers of America the. Ffa the marketing plan for Blue.

Speaker 2 2:06

Diamond Almond Butter. Blue Diamond Almond Butter. Yes.

Speaker 1 2:09

Now is that a real product.

Speaker 2 2:11

Yeah, yeah, so Blue Diamond Almonds? They're actually. I grew up in Sacramento, okay, and that's where they're headquartered. And so we For the competition. You pick an agricultural commodity.

Speaker 1 2:23

I didn't even know FFA had that kind of thing yeah.

Speaker 2 2:25

And you come up with an entire communications and marketing plan and you compete and Good for you.

Speaker 1 2:31

It was fun, that's exciting, you're like that. That totally shifted my career.

Speaker 2 2:36

And I raised a pig in FFA too.

Speaker 1 2:37

You did oh man Did it win Was it?

Speaker 2 2:46

did you do it on like how big it is, or you like show it at county fair and then you auction it off and they like judge you based on how you show the pig and how, yeah, kind of like how they're built and everything. So yeah, it was fun, very cool it's.

Speaker 1 2:57

I always love hearing about people's like lives and how they intersect with what they do, so thanks for sharing.

Speaker 2 3:03

Yeah, no problem.

Speaker 1 3:10

Okay, so Larry H Miller has been with the Women's Leadership Institute almost since our inception and they are. It's been really fun to hear the story of their evolution over time. Amanda's on our board. We had Sarah Starkey on the podcast. Tell us a little bit about the company you work for and how they are supporting women.

Speaker 2 3:32

Yeah, so, as you mentioned they are, the Larry Chmieler Company participates in the Elevate Her Challenge and Amanda Covington is on the board as well as I. We also were recognized as one of the 100 companies championing women Perfect, with that first cohort. I think it was like two years ago, yeah so, yeah, I believe that there are so many ways that they are helping women. Just looking at our leadership team, our executive team, our board of directors and just leadership within the organization, there are so many women in those roles and it's not just like looking at women and seeing them there, but they also are trying to grow and develop other female leaders within the company and just feeling supported and seeing lots of different types of women in those roles.

Speaker 2 4:25

Not everyone is the same and has the same background or the same family makeup, even, and so I love it's nice to just see a variety of women who are really talented and good at their jobs too, so it's fun and I feel that I'm able to get advice from them. Or hey, when you were in my shoes at this time in your life, how did you manage this and just getting different insights?

Speaker 1 4:51

So yeah, I love that and I love also the fact that it doesn't change overnight for any company Well, for most companies. But to see that it's grown and now you know you've got 50 percent or really good representation of women on all those intersections.

Speaker 1 5:09

And then that the women coming up can be like I can get there, I know how to get there and when I get there I have someone to ask questions of. Because that's also the important part is, sometimes women get promoted or get into spaces where there isn't support and so that's not helpful for them or the organization, right?

Speaker 2 5:27

Yeah, we have the Gail Miller Women's Leadership Group within our company and we just recently actually had a panel with Steve Starks, our CEO, nicole Tanner, who's the founder of Swig, and some other executive leaderships who are women, and we had a panel discussion and it was amazing just to hear their different perspectives and how they got to where they are in their careers and how they are trying to help women. And then also Gail she is just very supportive and a pillar in our community and it's incredible to learn from her every day as well and a pillar in our community and it's incredible to learn from her every day as well.

Speaker 1 6:13

Yeah, she's so competent, but also very humble, right? In the way she tells her story. It makes it so accessible to women. She's spoken to our career development series a couple times and that's always a highlight for many women, so we appreciate having her in the community.

Speaker 2 6:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1 6:31

Speaking of Larry H Miller and their policies, one of the things that we talked about is their parental leave policy and how that has impacted you and helped retained you. Will you kind of share what that looks like and the impact it had on you for companies who may be wanting to implement a policy like that? Maybe they're saying is it worth it? Let's give them a success story to kind of model after?

Speaker 2 6:51

Yeah, so I had my second child last year in October.

Supportive Parental Leave and Reentry Experience

Speaker 1 6:55

Congratulations and yeah.

Speaker 2 6:57

So I went on maternity leave and the Larry H Miller Company provides 12 weeks of paid leave if you have just a vaginal birth. If you have a C-section, then you get 14 weeks of those two extra weeks of leave just to help with the healing process, and then we also have parental leave, and then for um we also have a parental leave, and so that's two weeks of paid leave for um.

Speaker 1 7:31

Those that are supporting their partner or spouse that give birth. Okay, yeah, Perfect. I like that. There's multiple what you know, cause everything's not the same. Right, there's multiple ways to adjust that yeah.

Speaker 2 7:40

Yeah, and I think that, um, I felt extremely supported during my leave leading up to, like my entire pregnancy.

Speaker 2 7:49

I had a complicated pregnancy and so I was able to not feel like I wasn't allowed to take off time to go to my extra appointments or you know, I had different things that came up and I felt really supported by my team and the company, and they wanted to make sure that I was staying healthy and that my baby was staying healthy. And then also, we have an amazing mother's room at our building, and so I breastfed for about nine months after, and so when I came back from maternity leave, I needed a place to pump and had a nice chair. There was a door, there was a lock on the door, a sink, a little mini fridge, all these things we do not take for granted.

Speaker 2 8:37

Yeah, I did not have that in my previous experience, so I was pumping in a bathroom, so this was just really nice and I felt like they were very supportive in that journey that I took with breastfeeding and pumping and so, yeah, very nice works.

Speaker 1 8:52

Yes, like that's really full scale. Yeah, logistically, thinking of taking 12 weeks off is sometimes like how does that happen? What does what does that look like? Were you still taking calls where you're like, only call me if you're bleeding from the eyes, what? What does that look like?

Speaker 2 9:16

So, I did a lot of prep work before and I had an incredible team and so I put together like, if this comes up, this is what happens, or these items, this is who's in charge, and just really tried to prepare my team while I was gone. And um, I was very fortunate that they only reached out to send me flowers or congratulate me or visit me and meet the baby, and they did not bother me with work related things at all.

Speaker 1 9:49

So it was in the 12 weeks you were gone. We're like why aren't they calling me?

Speaker 2 9:54

I think, well, you're kind of in a newborn fog that little bit, and so it was really nice to have that time to bond with my baby and for myself to heal and adjust. But obviously I missed my team and I was so proud of them seeing different projects that happened and I'm like, oh, I worked on that prep work but then I didn't get to actually be there but it was. You know, there's a balance and I knew I was coming back and so that I would be there again.

Speaker 1 10:21

Yeah, okay, so let's talk about. You talked about the prep work and the time away. What did reentry look like after that? Was it like Monday morning You're back full time? Did you ease into it? What did that look like?

Speaker 2 10:34

Yeah, so it was interesting coming back because I came back at a really, really busy time for our team OK, it was the middle of the legislative session, oh dear and it was like jumping on a moving train, but it was going somewhere fun.

Speaker 1 10:50

So you know you have to balance that.

Speaker 2 10:54

My boss, Amanda, she you know she could tell I wanted to come back and just jump right in and prove to my team and everyone that I was still able to do the job. But she set me aside and said Jenny, I know you really want to just jump in, but I need you to take, take it slow and ease back, because we want you here for the long run and I don't want you getting burnt out because it's hard coming back. And she herself was a working mother her entire career, and so she was able to kind of remember what it was like for her and like the emotions and the hormones.

Speaker 2 11:33

And you're still like not sleeping a hundred percent and dealing with schedules and pumping and also your job and trying to balance it all, and so she was just great to have those conversations with when I'm like, okay, how, how, what am I doing and what? Am I doing and what's expected of me yeah.

Speaker 2 11:54

Yeah, and so she wanted me to ease back. Obviously, you know still be a part of the team and I was full time when I came back, and so I tried to work from home like two days a week and then be in office three days. Excuse me, three days a week, three days of excuse me.

Speaker 2 12:16

Three days a week, um, but you know like it depends on the week when you have events and like certain things that are happening and so it's not like a very these are my hours sort of job, especially working in communications. Like you are available 24, 7, um, because things happen, and so it was hard finding my footing, to be honest, coming back, and I think just the pressure that you put on yourself can be a lot and I eventually. So I'm breastfed for about nine months and I just stopped pumping so about a month ago and I'm starting to feel like myself a little bit now and not being on that clock, I mean it is another full-time job like doing that, and so it was a. I'm glad I was able to do it as long as I did Um, but now I do have a little more flexibility with my schedule now that I'm not doing that.

Speaker 1 13:13

So I like when you talked about Amanda pulling your side, like that's a really tender. Yeah, right, yeah To say we want you here full, like, full time, but like with us for the long run. And so please, please, treat yourself with care.

Speaker 2 13:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah please, please, treat yourself with care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She just kept reminding me to be patient with myself and that it like I'll get my groove back and to not be too hard on myself yeah, especially coming from someone who would know you're like okay okay, are you sure I am? Okay, yeah, I believe you, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that story.

Speaker 1 13:50

I think oftentimes we talk about the importance of parental leave but we don't always talk about, like the nuts and bolts of what it really looks like and the impact it can have. Yeah, and my guess we haven't talked about this, but my guess is that the loyalty you feel to both Amanda and Larry H Miller. Company is exponential, because they were so good to you. Yeah, yeah, so as even as a retention.

Speaker 2 14:16

And I think the culture of the company is family friendly. They want us to be able to go to our kids soccer practice in their games and they want us. They ask how, how your family is doing. I have a family, yeah, like I my husband will bring my three-year-old son and my 10 month old daughter into lunch, sometimes at my office, and the whole team comes by and wants to see them, and our CEO wants to come see them. So it's just it's great, yeah.

Speaker 1 14:48

This whole idea of your whole self at work, I think, is important. One of the places we went it was actually Lendio, and one of the ladies who spoke to us had just given birth, so she was up speaking and in the back one of the CEOs was holding her baby. He's like I am the part-time nanny for. When she's doing her job, but it was just such a happy feeling right of the support so that we all can do what we yeah what we care about.

Speaker 2 15:20

Yeah, and you know they still expect us to do a good job and work hard. But there is that flexibility and if you are getting it done like it's okay if you have to leave at four to make it to your kid's soccer game, and it's not like an eye roll when you're leaving where I've had you know. Sometimes you're like, oh, do people actually? Are they okay with it? Yeah, they are so it's it's great to feel supported.

Speaker 1 15:41

Yeah, you can trust what they say um do you think it's because it's a family company? It started out as a family company yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 15:47

I think that's just part of who we are as a company and the culture and the values that we have. Yeah, and our chief people officer, michelle Smith, she, she's also a working mom and so I think she, you know, can understand and sees the needs of different employees. Yeah, and it's. It's really starts from the top that there is that environment starts from the top, that there is that environment.

Speaker 1 16:13

We've seen it start from the bottom, but it it works much better if it can start from the top. Yeah, anything else you want to talk about as far as that goes, before we move on?

Speaker 2 16:26

I don't think so. I think I'm just grateful for the support that I felt all around me throughout the experience. So yeah, I just want to reiterate that.

Speaker 1 16:37

And I love that you said to and acknowledge like when I came back, I felt like I needed to prove myself and that your leader was like, no like we already know what you can do.

Generational Diversity in Workplace Communication

Speaker 1 16:46

We got you. Yeah, I think many of us have felt that. Right. Okay, so let's shift a little bit. Before Larry H Miller, you were on an interfaith council giving perspective on generations. This is interesting. In our polarized narrative right now, holding space for differences of opinion and thoughts is really important, so I'd like to just kind of talk about that First. Would you share examples of what working with other people of different ideologies looked like? Sure, how you managed that.

Speaker 2 17:18

Yeah, so I worked for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for about seven years in their public affairs department and then changed to the church communication department, okay, and so I was on the interfaith relations team and I was on a coalition of all different faiths, talking about the importance of faith and giving a millennial's perspective on that. And so I am a millennial and it was an amazing experience, and so I met with leaders nationally of other faiths. I was just going to ask is this a local or a national?

Speaker 2 17:56

So, this was a national coalition, and then the other part of my job was locally here in Utah. I was the interfaith communications manager. And so I was on the Salt Lake Interfaith Roundtable and I had great relationships with Rabbi Specter at Congregation Kol Ami, or Aves Ahmed, with Utah Muslim Civic League and all of those different organizations, and so, honestly, it was an amazing experience and I think, at the end of the day, no matter what you believe, we're all just trying to do good in the world.

Speaker 2 18:34

We're all just trying to do good in the world and developing these friendships was so impactful in my life. Um, I grew up in California and I had a very diverse group of friends and different people around me my entire life. And then, when I moved to Utah, I went to BYU and that was a very stark difference then from my upbringing being surrounded by, like all, people that believe the same thing. And then I moved up to Salt Lake and eventually started working for the church and it was wonderful to see the different communities even here in Utah. That exist.

Speaker 2 19:08

And it isn't all people all the same everywhere, that's exactly.

Speaker 1 19:11

Sometimes we say that, yeah, we talk about Utah, that we're all the same, but really We's exactly. Sometimes we say that like we talk about Utah, that we're all the same, but really we're not.

Speaker 2 19:16

There's quite a diversity, yes, there is, and so the Salt Lake Interfaith Roundtable actually began with the 2002 Winter Games here in Utah and that's when it started, and so it's been fun to see the evolution of that group and how it's grown, and yeah, so it was great.

Speaker 1 19:36

So I love that you laughed and said I was the millennial perspective. Yeah, when you spoke up, because I'm sure there are people of all different ages- as well as faith. Yeah, when you spoke up, did you feel like you were given credibility?

Speaker 2 19:49

Yes, I think so. You know, I feel there are so many different. Everyone from each generation, I think, brings different things to the table. I don't think it's just one person or one generation knows all right, um, and so I think we're able to learn from each other and have good discussions and talk about how you view things differently and um, and are motivated by different yeah.

Speaker 2 20:15

Yeah, and I think it's important to be able to listen um not just like share your voice, but also listen to other voices, and I think that's something I really learned um in my interfaith work.

Speaker 1 20:29

So there are about five generations at work currently which I find fascinating. Right, Because a boomer is going to be very different than a Gen Z.

Speaker 2 20:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 20:41

Like you said, they both have their good things, but learning how to work with them in the same space, I think it's been interesting and a bit challenging sometimes for organizations.

Empowerment Through Work Flexibility and Mentorship

Speaker 2 20:51

Yeah, challenging sometimes for organizations. Yeah yeah, Even on my current team and previous teams there have been all like all different generations working together and communication style is different Absolutely.

Speaker 2 21:03

The way you approach work is different. Yeah, I really think COVID helped with the approach to work a little bit, offering some flexibility now, where before it was like in office eight to five every single day. Now you know we are returning to office, but there is more flexibility of like, oh, I have this appointment, can I work from home this day? Or I have this I'm going to work from home in the morning and then come in and it's like stay. Or I have this I'm going to work from home in the morning and then come in and it's like yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 1 21:36

Where before there was not that?

Speaker 2 21:38

mentality and so I think you know Gen Z approaches it different, like then during the pandemic. Some older generations were like I don't want to be at home working and then youngers are like this is great.

Speaker 1 21:52

I love it.

Speaker 2 21:53

I love having this flexibility, so it's interesting to see how it's all coming together. Yes, the pandemic.

Speaker 1 21:59

It shifted a lot for better and worse, right, um, yeah, okay. Let's shift to the fact that you've had some great mentors. We've talked about a couple and opportunities in your career. How do you feel that's contributed to your experiences and growth? What role do mentors and sponsors have.

Speaker 2 22:22

Like you know, I think that you have to put in the hard work and, you know, go through the right training for whatever industry you are in. For sure, but at the end of the day, it's the people that you surround yourself with that really can help you grow and develop and can present you with opportunities, and so I think that's really important to have strong mentors and sponsors in your career.

Speaker 2 22:56

And I'm so grateful for all of the different people in my life that have helped me get to where I am, and I think it's not only them like teaching me, but it's them giving me exposure and opportunities along the way. It's the. It's that perfect mix of training but then also trusting you to do like act on the training. Exactly.

Speaker 1 23:13

Have you ever had a moment like that where you're like oh, I'm not sure I'm ready. They open a door for you and you're like hmm.

Speaker 2 23:20

Yes, so actually just last week, ok, we had an interview with a major network that I was put on the lead for this project and I knew it. My boss was like you can do it, and I knew I could do it, but I was like you don't want to do it, you want me to do it Like you're trusting me and it was with our CEO and a lot of logistics and working with different partners, and it turned out great and everything went well but in the moment I was like are you sure?

Speaker 2 23:52

like yeah you kind of have this imposter syndrome which we've talked about. Yeah, in um, the seer, the series that we did with you, yeah, um, but yeah, like you still feel that imposter syndrome. Even when you know you can do it and everyone around you is supporting you and says you can right, you still feel that sometimes.

Speaker 1 24:10

I think so, especially when it's growth, because you've never done it, yeah, so there is a possibility you could totally tank, but it's nice to have the people around you to believe in you, yeah. Do you have any specific things that you do when you're feeling like it's out of your comfort zone, or any coping strategies that you do?

Speaker 2 24:28

Hmm, I think it's just remembering that people want you to succeed. No one wants to see you fail, Sure, and so I don't think that you, they would put you in a situation to fail. I see, and I think just remembering that can help you go forward. And also just kind of sometimes just taking deep breaths, like in the moment, if you're feeling stressed I like my three year old son when he's having like a hard time with his emotions, I'm like take deep breaths and then I'm like I should do that Also.

Speaker 1 25:03

I'm taking some deep breaths. Yeah, or people have talked about like a power pose right Going into the bathroom. Or people have talked about like a power pose right Going into the bathroom. I've tried that a couple of times. Um, yeah, I like what you said about just remembering that people believe in you and that, whatever happens, it's a growth opportunity.

Speaker 2 25:22

Right, and even if it doesn't go a hundred percent the way you were envisioning, you can use that as a learning opportunity for the next time. And like no one is perfect and it's never going to be perfect, right yeah, and just being able to acknowledge that in life has helped me. I'm definitely like a perfectionist, so when but I've had like throughout my career, I've had to just learn to, to accept that it might not be perfect.

Speaker 1 25:52

And that's OK. That's really interesting because, as you've been talking, I've been thinking about what is success like in these new moments and these opportunities you get. Maybe one thing could be like what is successful when I get on the other side of this? What does success look like?

Speaker 2 26:08

yeah, in this moment, yeah, I think it's looking at that and then also looking at your key stakeholders in this scenario and what is successful for them. Yeah, great point.

Speaker 1 26:21

So you touched on um rising leader series, yes, and that you came. I love that.

Speaker 2 26:27

Our graduation picture, you like, gave birth the next month, like two weeks or something later, very pregnant in that photo, but tell us a little bit about the series and what you learned or what some key takeaways were.

Speaker 2 26:42

Yeah, so I participated in your first cohort for this series, and so it was a new, a new one that you guys did, and I was very fortunate that my company, um like, sponsored me through to participate. And I love just hearing from all of the different women that you guys brought in, from outside of the cohort but then also within the cohort. It was great to hear different people from different industries and different types of careers and how leadership principles apply to everyone and that we all have something to learn, no matter what your career is or what your role is. And I think a lot of people at the beginning were like I'm not a leader, you know.

Speaker 1 27:27

And then at the end they're like I am a leader, leader you know, and then at the end they're like I am a leader and so I love seeing that empowerment and confidence grow. Yeah, I, I always love that too of of the claiming your leadership, whatever that means to you right, that might not be your title, but whatever that means to you, um, and it was interesting, you were in our first one, so you were kind of a guinea pig.

Speaker 1 27:49

Yes, as we just said, like new, things are growing and changing, but in that program especially, it's important to know that the CEO is learning and also the person who is in a role, just like yours, is learning Right, yeah, that's like the common denominator of how we're all working through this together.

Speaker 2 28:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1 28:09

That's like the common denominator of how we're all working through this together Right as we wrap up. Is there anything else that you want to share about your, about your journey, about your career, about the state of women in Utah and what you want to see moving forward? What might that be? Yeah, that's a big question. It's a big question that be?

Speaker 2 28:33

yeah, that's a big question. It's a big question. Um, well, I think. Just my parents have always told me I could do anything that I wanted to do.

Speaker 2 28:37

Okay, and I hope that that is the case, like for all future generations of women, that they believe that they can truly do whatever they want and that they have the support and that they're able to do it. And so I would love to keep that momentum going, like I just gave birth to a daughter and I want her to go into the world and do whatever she wants to do and that I can help her, be feel supported and whatever's necessary to help her get there. And so I'm grateful for my parents for instilling that in me and just knowing that I can do whatever I want. And yeah, so let's see. I think also, just when I think about the Larry H Miller Company and seeing all of the like female executives and leaders I want to see that across the entire state. I want to see more women in leadership roles and in the C-suite, and also not in the C-suite, but other leadership roles. So I think that it's important to have it across the entire organization.

Speaker 1 29:47

Yeah, I in this 10th year that's why we started this podcast was to kind of celebrate companies um, also celebrate alumni Um, but sometimes companies when they get to the elevator challenge, they're like how do I apply this? What is the impact of?

Speaker 1 30:05

this and I feel like Larry H Miller and several other companies we've talked to are really good examples of what this can look like and the impact it can have not only on individuals but on companies as a whole and communities and our state right. The ripple effect really is big, if you look at it, that we all can thrive.

Workplace Authenticity and Supportive Culture

Speaker 2 30:26

Yeah, I think we touched on this earlier. But being able to bring your full, authentic self to work is part of that.

Speaker 1 30:34

Yeah, if I'm on a call and I happen to be working from home and my kid interrupts the meeting, I don't have to pretend they don't exist, it's like I am a mom, I do have a child, and it's OK, but I've been in places where I felt very awkward, like, oh yeah, I'm going to get in trouble for that. So it's nice to have other companies where it's not a big deal. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for the stories that you've shared. Thanks for coming and being a guest. Thanks, Patti.