Elevate: A Women's Leadership Institute Podcast
For a decade, we've been at the intersection of leadership, gender and the workplace. With our cornerstone product, The ElevateHER Challenge, we have worked to bring the vision and value to companies of creating more gender equitable workplaces.
To celebrate 10 years in this space, we share with you political and business leaders varying perspectives on the topic as well as the women who are creating change everyday in their workplaces and communities.
One conversation at a time, we work to change hearts and minds.
Pat Jones, WLI Founder
Nicole Carpenter, WLI Director
Patti Cook, WLI Director of Communication
Kris Jenkins, Tech Founder and Male Ally
#additivevalueofwomen
Elevate: A Women's Leadership Institute Podcast
Nicole Carpenter: Leading with Confidence
Comments or Thoughts on this Episode? Send us a text message.
Nicole Carpenter, director of the Women's Leadership Institute, shares stories and insights from 10 years with the organization. From founding an online community for overwhelmed mothers to becoming a columnist and author, Nicole's path is a testament to harnessing personal strengths and overcoming obstacles. She reveals how key tools like the Gallup CliftonStrengths assessment guided her in recognizing and leveraging her unique abilities.
We also delve into the importance of company culture and diversity initiatives in today’s work environment. Nicole sheds light on how organizations leading the charge by prioritizing gender diversity and broader inclusion efforts. Leadership programs not only foster talent retention but also affirm the value of employees.
Join us for this enriching conversation and be inspired to embrace your own unique path to success.
www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders
Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate. My name is Patti Cook, I'm your host today and we are here with the amazing director of the Women's Leadership Institute, Nicole Carpenter. Welcome, hey, Patti, Thanks for coming and chatting with me today.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Actually, in real life, this is how we always face each other. It's true Because our cubicles face like this, so this is very reminiscent of just a normal day at the office.
Speaker 1:And sometimes we look up and we're like wait, can we talk? Because we're like looking at each other or like we are, are we doing something right now? Yes, in the zone, that's awesome. Versus working versus talking yes, we need a little partition and feel like, exactly like it, it would.
Speaker 2:Hey, it would.
Speaker 1:Nicole, you have had a really amazing career at the Women's Leadership Institute. You have created some amazing things here. I would love you to tell us a little bit more about yourself and about your journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you so much it's. It's kind of sinking in that it's been 10 years. It kind of went by fast A decade. Yeah, it flew by Part of that. At the Women's Leadership Institute, some of our things repeat every year. You know we have our cohorts that run on the schedules and I think that schedule has made the time just fly by. I started with the Women's Leadership Institute in 2015, right from the beginning, but it's probably important to know what I was doing before that to know how I got here and I always wanted to be a working mom, Always like since you were little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my mom was a nurse and she worked shift work and I knew I didn't want to work shift work, but I came from a working home and I knew that I could contribute to society and a part of me felt like my worth was based on what I contributed. And that's a whole different podcast, perfect. But um, I always wanted to be a work at home or a work, a working mom, okay. And then I had my first child and I like how am I going to leave her?
Speaker 2:right, sure, and then there's that dilemma. So I actually we, um, I'm from utah, but at this point in my life I was in oklah. So any connections that I did have from college I didn't have anymore, and I didn't see a path to be the mom that I wanted to be in my heart and to be that working mom that I also wanted to be in my heart. So then, what do you do, right? What do you do in my heart? So then, what do you do, right? What do you do? And I explored a couple of different options. I did like a sales, an MLM type thing for a while, for a hot minute, to try to balance it all.
Speaker 2:And when we landed back in Utah, I did a little bit of consulting, some communication consulting. My background is in public relations communications and I could do that a little bit from home and a little bit on site. And I had that flexible work before we knew what flexible work was. But I wanted bigger things. There was something in me that was pulling at making a mark on myself, the society where I was, and through a series of experiences, I started an online community for overwhelmed moms, and that's really where I felt called to serve I had. When I started that, I had four kids, five and younger, so you were right in the demographic it was like the overwhelm mom.
Speaker 1:And if you don't know, Nicole is like the master of process. I do like Process and systems. I do like systems.
Speaker 2:I like color-coded systems, and it's important to know too that there's a set of twins in there, which is why there's so many kids so fast and why I reached overwhelm so incredibly quickly. So I was in that space for a while of entrepreneurship and I lean into my talents the best that I could while still being in that mom zone. So I became a columnist, a syndicated columnist, and I wrote a book, and that's where I was at when my path crossed with the Women's Leadership Institute and then I was asked to serve on the advisory board and I said yes, even though I felt like a fish out of water, or, you know, the little fish in the big sea, and that kind of led to where we are. I served on the board for a couple of years and then my predecessor left and I volunteered myself to apply for the position.
Speaker 1:So great though. So here we are.
Speaker 2:And what I was so happy to learn is that all the skills that I had, self-taught as an entrepreneur, I was able to apply here just because in college my degree was in communications but social media didn't exist yet. So all of the things that I had to be self-taught.
Speaker 1:There was some time between those two, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was self-taught on a lot of things and was able to apply those to the systems and the processes that we use at the Women's Leadership Institute, and the website and the backend and all of the gears that keep us moving and going and running.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I love that you knew and I feel like you have a story around this, so let's get to that that you knew to lean into your strengths. Yeah, how did you know what your strengths were? Because sometimes women don't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love Gallup and their CliftonStrengths so much Back when I crossed paths with them. It was called StrengthsFinder For any of our listeners who are familiar with that, so it can be called CliftonStrengths or StrengthFinder. And when I did have those little kids and my twins were two, my mom had gifted me a book that had an assessment in the back and at that time I was like literally balancing baby bottles and my oldest ballerina bag and like we were doing all of that bit right. And I took the assessment and there were some things that I knew. Communication showed up in my top five. I knew that that was my major in college. But strategic also showed up and I had no idea that I was a strategic thinker like none.
Speaker 1:I mean, how can you be in your twenties and not when you feel so scattered and your new mom, you're like what's strategic about this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean, if we look back, I was balancing the babies, and then their older brother who was throwing a temper tantrum at any given minute, and then the kindergartner all at the same time, and then the dinner process and the meal planning. And how many moms out there are doing the same thing leaning into their strengths.
Speaker 1:It just looks different than balancing it at work but that's the same skill, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I moved into entrepreneurship, I actually was using all five of my top five strengths simultaneously and I was so happy. Did you do that on purpose? I did, okay, yeah, I knew that if I could live in that like that zone of using those strengths, that like that's what we're made for. We're made to live in that strength zone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the zone that we call the um. That makes your heart sing, yeah. What makes your heart sing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, very cool and then, um, you know, things change. Opportunities are are available. Um, and I was able to still use a lot of those same strengths at the Women's Leadership Institute, but I love helping other women also find the things that they're good at and their strengths as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that you've called your babies is the career development series. Right, yes, allowing all these women to come in and learn how to be managers and work with one another and find their strengths. Yeah, what strengths have you seen, like rise to the top among these hundreds of women that you have trained?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm thinking of a graduation that we had. You were there, okay, and I think you actually pointed this out to us afterward but we have these incredible career women. Many of them are mid to senior level women, and we had a red carpet at graduation to read and this was my first graduation, so okay, pretty apparent.
Speaker 2:So we haven't had a, and either before or after have we had an actual physical red carpet maybe once we did, but it was fascinating that we've been working with these women for eight months and it's graduation and they would not walk down the red carpet.
Speaker 1:I remember like some pretended to go around it, Some claimed it right Like they walked on it.
Speaker 2:They danced.
Speaker 1:they did their thing, but there were a few that strutted. It was interesting for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then that leads us into the conversation of confidence. Yeah, right, and do we belong in this space? And if we don't belong in this space like I didn't belong in that first boardroom that I was in are we going to claim that space?
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause it's different between knowing it and actually like doing it, showing up, stepping on the red carpet yeah.
Speaker 2:So maybe we failed those ladies that year because that was graduation Sorry, graduates that year, because the point of our programs, especially the career development series, is to empower them to step into who they are, to step into their strengths as a leader, to step into their vision for their own career trajectory, whatever that looks like and that they can have a vision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because many of them are like I never even thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and if they want it to be amazing and corporate and C-suite, so be it, and if they are happy where they're at, then we just want to give them the tools to support them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:In that zone. But like we, like I want them all, when they get to graduation, to be able to strut a red carpet with confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I love that idea of strutting with confidence, but you have to know who you are. Mm, hmm. And someone said on an episode that we had that practicing leadership is something we need to give women more often, because sometimes you have to fail at the red carpet or you have to like go to this side of it and then be like no, next time I am going to walk down it, right, like it takes a few iterations to really step into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and I think, um, there's, and maybe there's more than just two types of people, but I think there's people that opt in to that leadership, that are just like I'm a leader and I'm going to say yes to every opportunity that comes my way. And then those that have such natural leadership abilities but they won't claim it, and maybe that's the difference between those that strutted and those that didn't. Maybe. So I know, if I look back, if I wouldn't have claimed leadership every chance I got, I wouldn't be where I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that actually probably comes because I have a fear of regret FOMO yeah.
Speaker 1:Like my whole life.
Speaker 2:I don't want to look back and wish that I'd done something that I hadn't done, so whenever an opportunity comes my way, way for as long as I can remember. I say yes, it propels you through it Even if I'm terrified, I'm thinking to the column that I wrote for KSL for like five years.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That started as a little article that I wrote in my rural cities newspaper that they published like once every two weeks, and it was just this, or once every yeah, every two weeks, like twice a month. It was just this little tiny parenting column. But I had this little tiny, whatever you wrote it, come on. I wasn't a very good columnist back then but I said, oh my gosh, there's this newspaper and I could write a parenting column.
Speaker 2:So I emailed the editor and asked him if they wanted one, and they said yes, so I started writing one. Yeah, like who gave me permission.
Speaker 1:Yes, permission. We talk a lot about.
Speaker 2:I gave me permission. It's awesome and it was terrifying and I would bite my nails all the way down every time a column was due. But like that's how you get better and that's how you become who you want to be and lean into your strengths and lean into leadership.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think you get to decide what leadership is and what leadership looks like.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think leadership is very personable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it's based on respect. Yeah, and everybody displays that differently. Yeah, so in writing your column, you started out and you're like who am I? I give myself permission, it wasn't very good, but I did it, yeah. So where, in the process of those five years, did you end up like, no, I absolutely am a columnist?
Speaker 2:yeah, so this? Oh so then the newspaper, the actual physical paper that was delivered to my city, was ending because, like papers are dead, right, they were dead when it started. It was a fun idea.
Speaker 1:Sorry, newspaper people, I know.
Speaker 2:So I called up KSL and I just said I have this column and I just emailed someone I don't like. I see you have writers that aren't hard.
Speaker 1:I'd like to be a writer. Can I be a writer?
Speaker 2:And they had a process for that, and so I jumped in and I took the two week, the two times a month, into four times a month and ran with it and it was terrifying, but sometimes you have to do those things that get you out of your comfort zone. Yeah, and I became such a better writer because of it.
Speaker 1:All that practice, for sure. Yeah, lots of practice.
Speaker 2:So that's probably when I said well, I'm a columnist, because KSL picked it up. But then also they had a system where it could get syndicated through different sources as well and at some point you just have to put your flag in the ground and just claim where you're at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, um, often when women come through our programs, they are like our rising leaders. We teach women how to lean into the next step for them, whatever that is in leadership. So, as you've talked about embracing those steps, how do you know which ones are right or not? Gosh? I don't know, you just throw yourself in and then be like nope, that wasn't it, or how's that happened for?
Speaker 2:you? That's a great question, Patty. I think sometimes we know we're at a fork in the road Like we feel it Sure In our core.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like it's very evident to our soul. Um, there have been dreams that I had that I wanted to fulfill. By by dreams, I mean goals that were like burning a hole in my heart because it was time that I brought them to fruition. And then there have been times where I've been burnt out and at a crossroads and had to make a choice. And then there's times where you're like I've been wandering in this wilderness for a long time. Yes, this is. How long do you wander in this?
Speaker 1:wilderness for a long time. Yes, this kind of wilderness. How long do you wander in the wilderness?
Speaker 2:Like where am I supposed to go from here and is it okay that I stay here for a long?
Speaker 1:time.
Speaker 2:Or does it make me less of a leader if I'm comfortable in my career for a?
Speaker 1:while Interesting.
Speaker 2:It's a thought. Yeah, if I don't know what the next thing is, is that okay?
Speaker 1:Well, and I also know that you're so capable and such an achiever that that's an interesting question right Of what is content, being content good or bad, or can it just be what it is?
Speaker 2:And it leads us to a conversation about like. What does success look like?
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And if we feel like we've created like a whole success in all areas of our life, our career is just a piece of that. So if that means that our career is on hold or just like staying as it is for a while, but we feel balanced in the other areas of our life, that's great, like I think that we should all get to write what our success looks like and not compare our success to the tall building that's next to ours, or our neighbor down the street.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, those milestones. Yeah, I love that you talk about defining success. I feel like we've talked about that because that is something that is hard, because success is such a you do this and then you do this, and then you do this and then you do this, and it looks like this. Yeah, but as we've wandered, especially because we've been moms and different things in our careers, it's kind of been a little different to redefine that A bit wobbly sometimes. I love that you talked about work-life harmony, right, balancing all the things, because sometimes they don't all balance out Right, which is why it's harmony, like how you said that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it there's. There's never equal pieces of it, right, we have to. We have to just know that some nights are working late and some mornings we're doing the mom thing and it just it has to ebb and flow.
Speaker 1:yeah, definitely we know when it's a program week. My family knows when it's a program week because we're gone a lot, yeah, yeah, and there might be some dishes on the counter.
Speaker 2:I'm saying yeah, my kids may or may not be eating pizza for dinner tonight and that's okay.
Speaker 1:We're embracing it. Yeah, yes, I love that For our listeners, both CEOs or frontline workers, whoever they might be. What do you want them to know about the Women's Leadership Institute, like the heart of it. What do you want them to know? Why have you stayed for a decade? What has it been for you?
Speaker 2:Like what we do matters and it's not just about. I know that gender diversity can be flashy, right, and sometimes it's popular and sometimes it's not popular. We can feel that, but what we do, we're not doing because it's popular.
Speaker 1:It's not a buzzword for us, right For?
Speaker 2:for us it matters, and the executives that we work with, that that I get to talk with like it matters to them too. Um, sometimes they're doing it because they feel, maybe, that it is trendy, but that's not where they stay very long right yeah like that's maybe what gets them in the door, because their competitor is working with us, but that's not why they stay.
Speaker 2:They see it and they don't just see the return on investment. Like we know that there's a return on investment, but it has to be about the women, about the people, about the company.
Speaker 1:Because that's what true leadership is is being about the people and being deliberate about what you do with your people and how you build them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the company culture really matters now more than ever, right, with all of our post-pandemic work habits. And what does that look like? And I'm thinking about companies, I'm thinking of Workfront as an example. We worked with Workfront and they hadn't done any diversity initiatives and they started with gender diversity because they didn't know where else to start and at first they got backlash from the Caucasian men, as one would, but their CEO was really open to unanimous comments and working through those, but it didn't end with gender diversity either. Any change you make that helps women is going to help all of your employees and before they knew it, they were sponsoring parts of the pride parade and marching and like doing all of the things that helps all their employees know that they're valued, that they belong yeah.
Speaker 2:So WLI and gender diversity is just the first step in that. And then our cohorts that we run our leadership program. Yeah, I feel like that's just like a foundational support to the companies that we work with Right. Some of them are capable of doing leadership development on their own and some aren't, and so if there's a company that really wants to retain a great talent, then how do you show them that they're valuable? And maybe one way is to sponsor them into a leadership program and tell them, actually say to them you're valuable, I see potential in you.
Speaker 1:I'd like to send you yes, do this, yes, yeah. In fact, we've both had experiences where we call women and say you have been tapped to come into this program and the response, if they know, sometimes they're like wait what, they didn't mean what, but their response is always so excited that they're valued, that they're seen.
Speaker 2:That's a huge thing, yeah, and there's power in that, yeah, and then we get to show them that leadership can look like lots of different things.
Speaker 1:That they can be a leader. Yes, yeah, because often when you ask a woman if she's a leader, many will not claim it yeah, so it's just saying you are a leader. Here's your red carpet Strut like you want.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, or they'll only claim it if they're a traditional leader, right, but you and I've had this conversation. Yeah, our organization is three people. Yes, so am I a leader?
Speaker 2:we laughed that we wouldn't qualify for our own programs like am I a leader if our organization is three people? Right, nicole leads me, I I'll be her follower. But, like I say, we just stake our flag and say, yes, we're a leader because we're helping other companies see how they can develop leaders, and that, in and of itself, is its own form of leadership Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, comes in all kinds, yeah, yeah, what else? I love this candid conversation about pathways, how to find your path, the wandering, the motherhood, the things that take your time for our audience. What would you want them to know for those moms who are struggling or for those women who are like do I take the next position? What does it look like? I know I have leadership, but what do I do with it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you and I have talked about the end. Yeah, and embracing the end and I think that that applies here that you figure out what it is for our listeners. They figure out what it is that matters to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe it is family and career, Maybe it's a career in their social life if they don't have a family yet. But what are those things that matter to you and then believe that you can do both. You can have a career and be a mom?
Speaker 1:But it's not a binary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that you may not have to create your own path like I did, that the paths, paths exist. We just have to help you figure out what those look like yeah, and talk to other people.
Speaker 1:That's what I've noticed a lot of women do and access those.
Speaker 2:It's definitely possible, and then you have to decide what success looks like and not so you know when you get there. Yeah, because it's so easy to compare yourself to everyone around you.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:You know like like, let's look at Pat Jones, our CEO. Do I need to do a political journey next and then?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. We love Pat Jones. There's no one like her. She's amazing. But like.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's not in this world. Would my career trajectory look like her?
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But we can all be successful when our paths look different.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But we have to decide what success looks like for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that you brought that in, because often I know Amanda Covington, who's on our board, has talked about this the graciousness of women, helping other women and supporting other women instead of the scarcity mindset, and I feel like Pat's really good at that as well.
Speaker 2:For sure, and I actually feel like that's happening more and more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2:That graciousness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, which makes me happy to see yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't see as much scarcity. You hear about it happening more in past tense, but I think nowadays it's more like how can we help all of us succeed?
Speaker 1:There's room for all of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like graduates of our program are always like I want to take this back. How do I help other women around me succeed, which I love? Right, all those ripple effects that we see. So I want to end on a personal note. Okay, and I know that you are an artist and I don't know that many people know that you're a watercolorist. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that? Well, first, you love to make things pretty. I do. I have said that before.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. Usually it's referring to spreadsheets, right.
Speaker 1:She's like where's the color in your spreadsheet?
Speaker 2:I do like a pretty spreadsheet and I got taken back when you said you're an artist, because I need to plant that flag.
Speaker 1:I claimed it for you, I know.
Speaker 2:So, um, about four years ago, I was loving what I was doing. I mean, obviously I was at the women's leadership Institute, but I kind of felt like I needed a creative outlet. So I just found some online tutorials and taught myself watercolor and I love it and it makes me so happy. So would I say I'm an artist. I just hung up my first piece of art in my own home. You did so. That's probably a sign that I. It's a big deal that I, that that counts.
Speaker 1:I've seen your art. I think it's beautiful. Yeah, very cool. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Um. Anything else you'd like to say before we close? Um?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think we've covered a lot of really great things today. Yeah, I think that the message that I would want to leave our listeners is that your success is personal, your career path is personal, your idea of leadership is personal, and don't let anybody else tell you that the path that you're on isn't the right one. If you feel in your heart that it's right, then it's right and your value doesn't come from the things that you accomplish or the accolades that you gain. And once you can get to that point, then you can be really confident in your own skin and just sit where you're at with a lot of confidence and be passionate about what you do.
Speaker 1:I love that Beautiful way to end it. Thank you so much, nicole. Director of the Women's Leadership Institute.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
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