Pete Codella: Building a Culture of Shared Prosperity in Utah Pt 2

 Join us as we continue our conversation with Pete Codella, who sheds light on the unique challenges entrepreneurs face, from securing funding to managing health insurance costs, and discusses the state's efforts to provide affordable healthcare solutions and supportive financial structures.

We discuss pressing issues that could make or break Utah's future business climate, such as housing affordability, infrastructure, and rural broadband access.

Finally, we dive into the intricacies of Utah's economic landscape, spotlighting the state's low unemployment rates and robust labor force. Learn about the Economic Development Tax Increment Financing (EDTIF) program and its impact on rural business investments. We also discuss the transparency and accessibility of data on incentivized companies, stressing the importance of fostering synergy between new and existing businesses. Pete's insights make it clear: inclusive economic opportunities are not just buzzwords but essential for the overall success of Utah.

https://startup.utah.gov

www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hey, it's part two. So excited to continue this conversation with Pete Kodela. If you haven't caught part one, go back and listen to it and then continue with us. Today I want to go back to the startup and the pathway. Is there anything for businesses wanting to start up and the money or the resources they get about this, about creating opportunity for all in their plan as they start out, Because I love your idea of having it part of the system from the beginning. That's so much easier.

Speaker 2 0:46

It is and we are not coming as a state and saying we're going to fund startups, right, so the money is not coming from us, but our intention is to highlight and feature and promote and advocate for all the existing resources in the state of Utah. So venture capital, firms, other funding opportunities, family offices, those are the folks that we want to partner with and collaborate with and get them involved to help, as you say, support and provide that opportunity to all kinds of startups.

Speaker 1 1:22

Okay, so it's part of the conversation, but not like a line item.

Speaker 2 1:31

Yeah, there is a program on my team that does have a 30% quota. It's from the federal government, it's the State Small Business Credit Initiative and we have a Utah Small Business Credit Initiative. I'm going to go down this path for a minute.

Speaker 2 1:46

We signed a contract with the Treasury in November of 2022. They agreed to send Utah $69 million to provide capital to companies that can't get a traditional bank loan. They don't have the equity, they don't have the credit score, they're brand new. All those reasons we need capital in that space. So our office partnered with the Treasury. We have sixty nine million dollars to bring to the state. Thirty percent of that money has to go to SETI businesses, socially, economically disadvantaged Rural Utah counts.

Speaker 1 2:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:18

Women owned counts. Minority owned counts. Like there are lots of cool things about that program. Yeah, so we have over a dozen lending partners around the state signed up. It took us about a year, a little over, to build out the system in our office Salesforce platform. We haven't done loans before, we've done grants. Okay.

Speaker 2 2:38

This is a loan program. So now we have lending partners and a small business who needs capital, who can't get one from a bank, can go to the website businessutahgov slash USBCI. At the bottom there's a list of lending partners and it identifies the areas that those partners are in that they cover. And they go to the bank and say I need capital and see if one of our programs we have a capital access program and a loan participation program.

Speaker 2 3:05

Perfect See if one of those will work for them. So that's one way that we are solving, hoping to solve that capital access challenge.

Speaker 1 3:12

Yeah, I love that you brought that up because, again, I feel like there are so many resources for people, but sometimes figuring out what they are, where they are, how to maneuver through it right, all those things are where it gets a little tricky.

Speaker 2 3:27

And my team is working on probably a 10-minute recorded webinar that's going to highlight, from our perspective, all the things the state's doing in this space for small businesses, and I hope to have that out here in the next month or so. But you're right, just knowing about them is a challenge, especially when you have a life and you have a family and you're running a business and you have day-to-day things that keep you up longer than you want to be up and you're tired.

Speaker 1 3:56

That's right. Or you're in a full-time job and you want to start a business, but you're still working your full-time job and all those things.

Speaker 2 4:02

And again, I can somewhat relate to that because I've been an entrepreneur. You've been there. Yeah, my wife. Here's another challenge. My wife was a schoolteacher at the time. We got health insurance through her. When she stopped teaching and we had kids. Our health insurance premium became more than our mortgage payment, so high yep. With a young family, that is a barrier for entrepreneurs, so something Brad Bonham and Ryan Starks and I have talked about even with the governor and the chief of staff.

Speaker 1 4:38

How do we support?

Speaker 2 4:38

entrepreneurs with an affordable health care program and we're working on it. Is there a way that the state can help fund a group program and they can join it? Chambers of Commerce sometimes have that, professional associations sometimes have that. So we're looking at is there a way for the state to step into that space and help out. Like that's a big challenge.

Speaker 1 4:55

Yeah, I appreciate you brought that up, so you oversee so many parts. Well, first of all, I want to clarify for those who don't know what what constitutes a small business?

Speaker 2 5:08

Do you want the Federal Small Business Association definition or do you want yeah?

Speaker 1 5:13

probably just your definition for our listeners.

Speaker 2 5:15

I think that's 250 or fewer employees, when, when I consider a small business, it's, you know, 50 or fewer. Ok, there's very small businesses.

Speaker 1 5:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:29

I may not be quoting the numbers correctly.

Speaker 1 5:31

No, of course, but that's the gist.

Speaker 2 5:33

But your point for women entrepreneurs often, and this is a metric where WalletHub okay, I pulled out a WalletHub ranking where we're number one. There is a WalletHub ranking where we're dead last. There is a WalletHub ranking where we're dead last.

Speaker 1 5:45

It's ironic, isn't it?

Speaker 2 5:45

And we have been last forever, I think, since they started it. And it's women, it's gender in Utah. It's terrible, it's not acceptable and that's why I'm part of the A Bolder Way Forward movement, which we can talk about. But often women entrepreneurs they're the only employee. We have to get them to a point where they have another employee for it to count on this. And it's not all about the numbers and the metric, but I'm saying this is one measurement where if there were at least two employees the entrepreneur and another employee we would do a lot better in in the ranking.

Speaker 1 6:20

That's fascinating. Yeah, Because one thing that we have talked about is I've heard Scott Anderson say one reason why those numbers are so hard is because, talking about the Utah way and the work ethic, you know we have a political development series and part of the really good space for that are people who are involved in the PTA, people who serve on their community councils, who are leaders in their own right, but they're not getting paid for it, so that also skews the number. So you know it's tricky.

Speaker 2 6:51

None of us should tell others what they should do for work or whether or not they should volunteer or whether they should only work 10 hours a week versus 60 hours a week.

Speaker 2 7:00

Yeah, that's everyone's choice and that's why I'm saying opportunity for all to choose the path that they want. Yeah, but we have to find a way to support the women entrepreneurs who want to grow Right so that, so that they can do better. We also let's talk about pay equity. Let's do it. Why in the world does the same job still get different pay for men and women, and Utah has not moved the needle much in that regard.

Speaker 1 7:27

How about even just putting the pay on on it? The pay range yeah. Yeah, that seems like a big uphill battle.

Speaker 2 7:34

I will say in our office a couple of years ago and, by the way, we're pretty close to half and half men and women in our leadership team we skew heavier for women than we do men. Ok, but we do have pay equity. We looked at it. Same job classification. We're there now. We weren't a handful of years.

Speaker 2 7:52

Congratulations, thank you. We weren't a handful of years ago and of course that's part of the Elevate Her Challenge. But people in Utah, executives in Utah, women should be on your boards. Women should be in every leadership category. You should pay men and women the same, anyway.

Speaker 1 8:11

I love it. I don't know if you can feel his passion, but he's like passionate about it. He's gone off script and I love his passion.

Speaker 2 8:17

I'm the co-chair for the Organizational Strategies and Workplace Culture Spoke on the Boulder Way Forward initiative from the Utah Women in Leadership Project. You know my spoke is focused on that culture piece how in the world are we going to move Utah's culture between now and 2030? We have to have these conversations and we have to acknowledge that, that there are improvements that need to be made, and we do have these conversations Pete like that's the big question.

Speaker 1 8:46

Culture is and we were talking a little bit about this before of there's a legislative piece and there's a time and a place for some of those to regulate. But if you legislate something and the people's heart and minds are not coming along with it, that's problematic too, in a way. So what have you found for these conversations? I feel like it's just a lot of conversations, it's a lot of education, it's a lot of messaging, so people can hear and receive what you are offering.

Speaker 2 9:17

I'll say one thing that we, a strategy that we hope to employ, is to convene 15 to 20, we've talked about this before executives from different Utah organizations, bring them together and say what have you done that has worked for women in your business? What programs, initiatives, policies, what has worked really well? Tell us about it, tell us about the outcome and why did it work? Yeah, exactly Two. What have you tried that did not work at all. It was a miserable failure. But those kind of conversations with that group and then we get them talking, we need the people who are in leadership to have these conversations with their executive teams, with the C-suite, with their boards words.

Speaker 2 10:07

I, as we've talked about, am in charge of the Governor's One Utah Summit. There are four presenting organizations Office of Economic Opportunity, utah. Office of Energy Development, world Trade Center, utah. Salt Lake Chamber. This is not a diss on any of those organizations, but all four are led by white men. How do I have diversity in my speakers when the presenting organizations have that type of leadership? Again, I love all the leaders. We just need more opportunity for different leaders and it has to come from the middle of the organization and up to the leadership, you know executive team before you can get a CEO or an executive director. And Governor Cox, I think, has been very purposeful about putting women in his cabinet.

Speaker 1 10:49

Yes.

Speaker 2 10:50

Which I don't think Utah has seen before, and a woman lieutenant governor, and we have a woman on our federal delegation. We're making some progress. Yeah, it's not representative of all of Utah yet.

Speaker 1 11:02

Yeah, but I feel like he's working through things using the government as like a business.

Speaker 2 11:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:07

Working through pay parity, women on boards, all those things that you mentioned. Yeah, yeah, I love that because, just like you said, as an entrepreneur, you feel really for these people in the entrepreneur space. If we get CEOs together right, 95% of the businesses in Utah are white males we get the CEOs together so they can say, yes, this is working, this isn't working, this is what I found right. Nobody's got time to waste, so really getting to the point and having those people talking together, I think is good and we need those leaders to understand.

Speaker 2 11:40

They may not see it, it's not their experience, but it is the experience of maybe half of their workforce and it's OK to talk about.

Speaker 1 11:49

And you don't know, till you know, yeah, and that's OK.

Speaker 2 11:52

Yeah, and everyone has a journey to allyship for whatever cause. And start the journey, utah. Start the journey.

Speaker 1 12:01

So how did you get here? Like you're a fiery advocate, I love it Like have you always been? Like this or what. What shifted it for you?

Future Outlook of Utah Business

Speaker 2 12:09

This will be an interesting answer to that question. I posted something on social media in the 2010s that was critical of the way a woman was dressed at a conference.

Speaker 1 12:20

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 12:35

I was the subject of a firestorm on social media, oh wow, and my face was 30 feet tall. You know the big screen. I'm probably in a suit and a button-down shirt and maybe a tie, and you know women have. They wear different things and different women from different cultures wear different things, and I just had to realize that there were some areas that I needed to be more considerate of others and so, pete, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 13:10

That was such a real answer.

Speaker 2 13:12

That's the truth.

Speaker 1 13:13

And I love that. You said I changed my mind.

Speaker 2 13:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:17

Like the other day I was going to a work conference and I intuitively put on a suit and then I will tell you that I got angry, that that was my intuition to put on a suit to go to the business conference because I wanted to wear a really colorful skirt and dress which I could have. But that wasn't my first intuition.

Speaker 2 13:35

Because you wanted to fit in.

Speaker 1 13:37

Because I wanted to fit in.

Speaker 2 13:38

You know predominant faith and to be taken credibly. For sure Predominant faith in our state, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The new young women's president, emily Bell Freeman Maybe she's been in a year or two, I can't recall. I love that she does not wear the suit jacket when she goes to general conference. She'll wear a dress. She'll wear whatever. Like there's not a dress code. I actually didn't notice that I know I um, I actually didn't notice that.

Speaker 1 14:06

I know, I actually noticed that. So so things, things are changing. Oh, sometimes they're so slow. More of us need to talk about it and more of us need to talk about it and not get offended when we talk about it and prod it along, yeah yeah, yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 14:16

Okay, I feel like we've we've veered way off, we've totally veered, but I love where we've veered way off the screen.

Speaker 1 14:21

We've totally veered, but I love where we've veered. So Pete pie in the sky in five to ten years Utah business. What does it look like? I'll ask you personally from the fiery Pete we've just seen, and then also from your business perspective and the work you do at GoEO.

Speaker 2 14:38

I hope that Utah business continues to excel. In a lot of ways. Our economy and what's happening in Utah is unique. I do think that our governor and president of the National Governors Association and the Disagree Better campaign and his approach to governing which, I'll speak frankly, for some is too moderate. I think it's a great example, and you may disagree with some of the policies and we can respect one another when we disagree. I think that Utah has an amazing climate for business because we have the workforce. They're well educated, people are interested in working. Our work engagement, I think, is up at a higher level now than it has been for decades. We have very low unemployment, so we have an engaged workforce. Like I said, we have the low tax burden. We also have a low cost of doing business. Yeah, there are some headwinds. Our housing market struggles yes, we are not alone. However, I think we're now maybe the fourth most expensive real estate market in the country like Salt.

Speaker 2 15:47

Lake City. That's not good.

Speaker 1 15:49

Do you think that's because of the economy that we have?

Speaker 2 15:52

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 15:52

People come in.

Speaker 2 15:53

It's because of the great things that are happening here and it's because of the family connections and other people who want it. They want to be here for the outdoors, they want to be here with their family. Right, and I want my kids to be able to buy a home in Utah, and right now they cannot. Yeah, yeah, and that's why the governor and the legislature have made that such a high priority. That is a that is a strong headwind for Utah's future success.

Speaker 1 16:15

Yeah, they kind of go hand in hand.

Speaker 2 16:16

Affordability of housing, and we also have some scarce resources, like like water, like air quality. Yeah, there are challenges, but at the same time, utah has done so many things right and has been such a great example and has received some really great accolades. So I want to see more Fortune 100 companies in Utah. I want to see more like what you see along I-15 in Lehigh, where we're at.

Speaker 1 16:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:41

And we will see infrastructure. Our office has talked about how Governor Cox has really invested in and helped expand Utah's infrastructure, and now we're looking at it.

Speaker 2 16:51

Especially to rural. Especially to rural and I didn't talk about the Utah Broadband Center, which is in our office, which is getting high speed broadband throughout the state. You would think that everyone could remote telework wherever they are in the state. It's not true. I think we're better than a lot of states, but there are areas where we can improve, and so they've got federal money that they're using to get high speed internet around visiting different rural spaces and you're there and trying to connect to the internet.

Speaker 1 17:24

Yeah, yeah, it's something I guess I took for granted, so I really appreciated that focus on the rural expansions. Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:32

So I think Utah's economic outlook is quite sunny and good and there are a lot of really good things happening here. I think our challenge is to not become a victim of our own success and to end up like places where people are leaving to come here Right Right, and that can happen because they bring their kind of former environment politics, disagreement, whatever it might be. So I hope that we can be welcoming and friendly and kind and that that way of life and the culture can be preserved in Utah. But I'm also of the opinion that it's better to grow than not to grow.

Speaker 1 18:24

Yeah, that's what.

Speaker 2 18:24

I was just thinking If you've ever lived somewhere, go live in Detroit, see how that what that feels like. We just have to be smart about how we do it and I think that the high density development and you know the housing incentives that are happening, especially along rail transit lines.

Speaker 1 18:44

Yeah, I love that component of the transportation and the high density housing together Exactly.

Speaker 2 18:50

But we just got to find ways even beyond that, for you know townhomes and just I bought a condo when I took my first job out of college.

Speaker 1 19:01

It was in Orem OK like.

Speaker 2 19:02

So a townhome or a condo, you know, after an apartment. If we become a society where everyone lives in high rise apartments and rents and does not have the opportunity to purchase a home and build equity in a home, it's a different kind of culture. I don't think it's a Utah culture.

Speaker 1 19:23

Interesting, Interesting. I've done both. I've lived downtown with my three kids, I adored that and now I live in the suburbs right with the backyard and the garage and all the things.

Speaker 2 19:35

So here's my challenge. We're empty nesters now. We have a home in South Jordan that is bigger than we need and I would love to be on a one level home. I can't afford to move. It'd be almost twice as expensive for me to get a smaller home than to stay where I'm at with my current mortgage. So interest rates play into this.

Speaker 2 19:58

I mean, there are so many pieces and it's complicated, but the opportunity opportunity for utah is really tremendous and we've done a lot. This does not utah does not become the number one economy just by happenstance. Sure, like we can go back to former governors and their initiatives and the things and I feel like it's a progressive right.

Speaker 1 20:20

It is governor after.

Speaker 2 20:21

Yeah and Utah. Oh, novel idea Balances a budget, saves money for a rainy day, like the state of Utah. Triple A bond rating ever since the bond ratings were started there aren't. There might be a handful of states in that category. Utah's rainy day fund is quite large. I'm just saying that that fiscal conservatism is something that paves the way for economic success and people are seeing it. People, it's the collaboration, it's the ability to meet with elected officials and to network with others, to find mentors, to find capital. Utah has done a lot better at bringing all those resources together than other places.

Speaker 1 21:05

So it's interesting because when we talked to allyship, about allyship, just a little bit ago, we talked about bringing everybody along, right? No, nobody's left behind in that. And sometimes I feel when we talk about Utah and Utah's future, yeah, people feel like we have to leave part of Utah behind in order to progress, or it has to stay the same. But if it stays the same, then how does it grow deliberately? I feel like Natalie Goffner's talked about that with like Keepers of the Flame.

Speaker 2 21:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:36

How do we do really thoughtful growth that works for people? And I really appreciate that perspective because I think Utah has many things going for it. Does it have some things that are not going for it? Yes, and I think that we all know that are trying to work towards it. But I like how you said it's a sunny. It's a sunny outlook with some really thoughtful pieces we need to talk about.

Speaker 2 21:58

Talk to me on a Friday afternoon when I leave work at five and get on I-15 and don't get home until 6.15 or later.

Speaker 1 22:06

That does not make me happy.

Speaker 2 22:07

It is 19 miles. So when you compare that to other places, utah's commute, I think, still ranks pretty great.

Speaker 1 22:23

But yeah, the growth does have some challenges.

Speaker 2 22:24

And all the cars on the roads. It was great to commute during COVID. Like you could get up and down, you know get to downtown in 20 minutes Easy.

Utah Economic Development Incentives

Speaker 1 22:35

Anyway, yeah, lots of things, pete. What haven't we talked about that you want to talk about? Do you have some facts and figures you want to share with us about Utah?

Speaker 2 22:45

I did bring some economic data. You know we talked about low unemployment and it's like some of the lowest in the country and has been for a while.

Speaker 1 22:56

And is that across the board for all people who could work, low unemployment rates?

Speaker 2 23:03

It is, and there is one industry that struggled. So every industry grew in Utah last year except the information industry. So that's our IT friends.

Speaker 1 23:11

That's kind of ironic, isn't it?

Speaker 2 23:13

Yeah, but the economists say it's because it's impacted more by the higher interest rates than some of the other industries. So for what it's worth, but Utah's labor participation, the 2023 rate was the highest the state's seen since 2010. The engagement I talked about. The economy grew at 2.2 percent.

Speaker 1 23:33

Do you think that's because people need to work because of the inflation, or what causes that engagement?

Speaker 2 23:38

Well, Utah has a young population. I think 32 was the average median age in the last census. I just think Utahns want to work.

Speaker 1 23:51

We're industrious 32's in the middle of your career. If you're working, that's right yeah.

Speaker 2 23:58

So we're relatively young, all those things. Inflation is a challenge and a headwind.

Speaker 1 24:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:07

And it did cause housing prices. The flip was interesting. Home prices are down now about point eight percent and they were higher than inflation. Now they're again that flip during the pandemic mortgage rates being higher than inflation, now they were lower than inflation during the pandemic but still housing is unaffordable for most people and our population grows by about 1.5% to 2% annually. I mean Utah is on a trajectory to be at $4 million in the coming decade or so?

Speaker 1 24:41

Yeah, what does that look like?

Speaker 2 24:42

And then $5 million. Here's something I'll highlight Our business incentive program is called the Economic Development Tax Increment Financing.

Speaker 1 24:52

EdTIF.

Speaker 2 24:53

Thank you, legislature for EdTIF for the name, but there's a rural EdTIF. That program is relatively new and it can give a 50% tax credit back if you invest in rural Utah. So that's outside of the Wasatch Front or Washington County. So the legislature, they are doing things to spur that development in other parts of the state. We've seen Texas Instruments announce the largest capital investment in Utah ever with their expansion. That's happening in Lehigh. We've got some really cool wins. But we are being more strategic and selective. So if you're on the Wasatch Front you have to be in one of our five strategic targeted industries to get the edge hit.

Speaker 1 25:35

I was just going to say let's talk about those, those five targeted industries.

Speaker 2 25:44

Okay. Information technology and finance. Did I say Aerospace and defense.

Speaker 1 25:51

Aerospace and defense. Thank you.

Speaker 2 25:53

Up north. What's happening with the companies up there and the contracts they've got from the federal government Bringing money to Utah? The expansion Northrop Grumman yeah, amazing. Like people don't realize, our country's ground ground based deterrent system is being developed in northern Utah and those companies can only share a little bit of information about it, for obvious reasons. But it's safe to say that it's. It's a huge economic driver and just having the aerospace and defense industry is great and their success is amazing. But think of all the other industries that support that industry.

Speaker 1 26:34

Right that come along with it, and those are often really small businesses that are supporting that.

Speaker 2 26:41

So yeah, All right.

Speaker 1 26:43

Well, I feel like we've covered a lot of ground. I feel like we've talked about the economy. I feel like we've talked about some things that are headwinds or barriers, as you say. Let me share.

Speaker 2 26:57

One more thing about the tax credit, please. Some people think Utah is giving out cash to companies to convince them to come here. We're greasing some palms on the down low. It is a post-performance tax credit. Every consumer knows what a rebate is. Our grants and incentives guy doesn't love it when I call it a rebate, but for a consumer it works like a rebate. You go spend the money and you do a certain number of things to claim your hey, this is what I did, and you submit it and then you get a rebate. That's how our tax credit program is structured. A company signs a contract with a state.

Speaker 2 27:33

We're going to hire this many people, we're going to pay 110% of the average county wage. We're going to invest this much money in capital in this area, in buildings, in equipment, and we'll do this over this period of time, and then for that the state says OK, we'll give you up to 20 percent back of your Utah taxes as a post-performance tax credit. I think it's again fiscally conservative. It's a smart thing to do. The company never gets the money.

Speaker 2 28:02

First of all, they'll sign a contract. Ok Doesn't mean they're going to do all those things Right. If they don't do those things, they don't get the money. So it's, in my mind, a win-win situation. The second point I want to make is two-thirds of the companies who've engaged with the state in that program since it was created in 2005 are Utah-based companies. This is not a program that's primarily bringing in huge companies from different states. It's primarily supporting Utah entrepreneurs, which is awesome. That's what we want to do, but we also want to be able to play the game like other states in economic development and have a program by which we can incentivize people to come here, and so that's how it works.

Speaker 2 28:43

That's the space it plays in, and it's a long game. It's a, it's a five, 10 year game.

Speaker 1 28:50

And I'm pretty passionate about that. Have you felt some headwinds against that program or?

Transparency in Company Incentives

Speaker 2 28:55

There are some media who will put headlines that say Utah gives away eight million dollars. That's BS. That's not true. It's post performance tax credit, so they have to do all the work and then they can get a credit back. But here's what I wanted to say. On our website, incented Companies, there's a whole table that, since it was started in the early 2000s, you can sort by the company name, by the city, by the amount. So it's transparent. Yeah, it's published on the website. Every column is sortable up or down. You can see number of jobs incentivized. You can also see what percent of their edtif they have claimed. And you will be surprised to learn, for various reasons, that a lot of companies don't claim 100 percent of the edtif.

Speaker 2 29:47

Dude it's like your gift card, right? Maybe they don't need the money, maybe they forgot about it, maybe they haven't met their goals, maybe they're just focused on leadership change.

Speaker 1 29:57

Maybe they're focused on other things. Yeah, are amazing. I'm so glad you're part of this conversation, thank you, yeah, let's keep having the conversations that bring the talent and the opportunities to everyone as we bring in these companies and we build up the Utah companies here as well. Like that could be a really powerful synergy when we find the right way to do that.

Speaker 2 30:24

Yeah, that economic opportunity is so important for individuals and for families and for Utah's success. We have to find a way to support that for everyone in an inclusive way as much as possible.

Speaker 1 30:39

Well, thank you, peter, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 30:40

Thank you, you're welcome.