Robin Huling : Master Class on Communication and Leadership

Navigating the corporate ladder can feel like a solo climb, but as Robin Huiling, Chair of Silicon Slopes Women in Leadership, eloquently points out, the journey is enriched when mentorship paves the way. In a candid discussion, Robin opens up about her early career missteps and the wisdom she's since embraced regarding the power of women uplifting women. Her own narrative, steeped in the entrepreneurial spirit passed down from her mother, serves as a vibrant backdrop to our exploration of professional growth, the pivotal nature of networking, and the subtle dance of communication that propels one to success. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to the Women's Leadership Institute podcast. We're excited to be here. We are with our co-host, chris Jenkins, the co-founder of Mobley. We're also with our esteemed guest, robin Huling. She is the chair of Silicon Slopes Women in Leadership. Thank you for coming, robin and being with us. Thank you, I'm excited. Why don't we start off with being the chair of the board? And I know that we just recently started that with the mentorship program and one of your posts talked about. You wanted to do it because of the regret you had. I'd like to dive into that a little bit. Will you tell us about that? Sure of course.

Speaker 2 0:53

Well, my background in leadership started in Orlando, florida, in the 90s, so I don't know if anybody remembers the 90s or the male leadership practices in the 90s, but that is who raised me, and not for all the right reasons did I excel in leadership roles, and one of the things that I regretted the most was not taking advantage of the women who were in leadership positions above me and really asking to sit down with them and pick their brains and find out how they got where they were or what paths I should get on. I took on a lot more masculine characteristics and behaviors and thought I could just figure it all out myself, and I'll just mimic what I thought was important and so, 20 years later, it really is.

Speaker 2 1:45

one of those things that I have seen and felt very passionate about is women seeking out women leadership opportunities from women who have done it and have blazed the trail. To make it easier, don't figure out B, c and D. If somebody's already gotten there, go ahead and start from F and move on.

Speaker 1 2:06

Did you not thank you for sharing that? Did you not feel like you could go talk to them? Or did they not ever reach out to you, Like what was the dynamic there?

Speaker 2 2:15

I think it was probably a little bit of both. I think that oftentimes women in leadership roles have a lot on their plate and so they're just maintaining their own position and doing their own thing, and so they might not realize that they needed to turn around and lift up others. This was a long time ago. I think that thought process has changed drastically, where women have really realized that there just needs to be more women in leadership positions, and they can only get there if the few women that are already in the leadership positions help. Um, in Utah, right, we're still just 95, 95% of CEOs are males, so that 5% female ratio needs to really be celebrated. And then they also turn around and do help others, and I think they do for sure. I think that tide has changed a lot?

Speaker 1 3:15

I think so too, and I think sometimes it's generational too, because the women who became leaders had to fight so hard to be leaders that they kind of just stuck out their territory for better or for worse. But I think that that is changing.

Speaker 2 3:29

And I think also, I never thought that I could get to that position, or did I know that I wanted to get to that position. So I think a lot of the things came to me instead of me going after them and realizing that I had options. So that's one of the things that I really um, I'm passionate about now is telling women the options you have and that there's different ways to get to different areas of your goals and one path is not the only path, and so having mentorships are in finding women that might, like that might be interesting, be interesting to ask or to say I have these ideas, what do you think, or what do you think I need if I want to go this far in my career? What are some options that you think I should, you know, pursue?

Speaker 3 4:19

How did you learn on your own that you had those options Like, what was it that kind of for your own career where you learned that and maybe, maybe other women just haven't or you're helping them to see that?

Speaker 2 4:30

Yeah Well, in my own career it was about being scrappy, so I was a natural born entrepreneur. I would pick the azalea flowers off my neighbor's bushes, wrap them up and sell them back To your neighbor To the neighbors, and so they would tell my mom please stop, figure something else out. We have some quarters for Robin, but please leave our ZOE bushes alone.

Speaker 2 4:54

And then my mom owned her own store. So my father passed away when I was in eighth grade, so there were still young children in the home. My mom was an avid crafter and cross-stitcher, entered all the fairs all the time, and so her only business knowledge was her craft, and so she opened up a cross-stitch store that turned out to be one of the largest in the United States, which was great, and we had to work in her store all the time, which we did not love, but one of the things is, we learned how to sell because if we didn't make the sale, we wouldn't eat.

Speaker 2 5:34

And one of the biggest things that I was taught was the relationship, in that it wasn't just making the sale, it was getting to know the clients that were coming in and the repeat customers and how to answer their problems before they knew that they had the problem. So that was really ingrained in me at a really young age, and I'm also very passionate about effective communication and natural behavior styles, and so I am a dominant natural behavior style. So I was always a results-driven, scrappy, figure-it-out kind of person, and so I was always a results driven, scrappy, figure it out kind of person.

Speaker 2 6:08

And so I was always like I can do that, oh, I can do that.

Speaker 1 6:11

Right.

Speaker 2 6:11

Yeah, and most women think that, like especially with social media, you'll see people make reels or how to's or insights, and other women are like we do that that's not special. No, it's not, but they're making the video about it, so they're telling the other people. I think that's a lot of times women hold themselves back from that because, yes, you can do it too and do it.

Speaker 2 6:35

There's no reason, just because they're doing it doesn't mean you can't do it. So that's one of the things now I really like to remind women to do is yeah, you can do it too.

Discovering Your Why in Leadership

Speaker 1 6:44

Yeah that's interesting. So one of our programs is Rising Leaders for women who want to step into the next level, whatever that might be for them. Because we started it, it's because they're like I don't know if I want to be a manager. What does that mean in my life? What kind of balance is that going to happen? What about the vice president? What does that mean? So I love this idea of talking to women who've been there. You know, of course you could do it, but talk to women who've been there. Maybe you don't want to do it or maybe this is not the right time to do it.

Speaker 1 7:15

There'll be time later. So I think that's a really important concept to know that it doesn't have to be linear. We can pick it up when it's when we're ready for it.

Speaker 2 7:25

Right and it helps you answer your why.

Speaker 1 7:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 7:27

So a lot of times it's why do you want that, do you? This happens we talk with women that are in home based businesses or direct marketing. Sales is do they want the camaraderie, do they want the friendship or do they want to make money? And so finding that most women don't know.

Speaker 1 7:49

Most women don't know, most women don't know that.

Speaker 2 7:51

And even those of us that are on paths or in leadership posts are still trying to figure out well, what do?

Speaker 3 7:56

we really want.

Speaker 2 7:58

And then you get what you wanted. And then you're like do you really want this or was that worth the cost? Yeah, so you're like did I really want this or was that worth the cost? Yeah, so you're always reevaluating the why. But if you can hone in on your why, it makes everything else so much more easily tangible to work on and finding women in positions that you think you might like and we have that on social media all the time with you. Want to be an influencer, which is great, but why is?

Speaker 2 8:28

it to provide for your family, and this is a means, and so it's going to take a lot of work. It's not just what you see. Do you want to be a leader in your field? What does that entail, is it?

Speaker 3 8:41

not just good at your job.

Speaker 2 8:42

Now you've got to learn people skills. Now you've got to lead others. Just because you're good at your job, does it really mean you know? So, finding out, maybe I don't want to move up, I'm happy here, or maybe this company really does need more women or more people who have better people skills that need to move up so you figure out your why.

Speaker 1 9:01

That's fascinating. Have you found, because you work a lot with teams and developing teams, have you found that organizations help their employees learn their why or figure out how? Because I love that you just said. Just because you're really good at your job doesn't mean you're going to be a good manager, and often that's what we do. If you're really good at your job, then we'll promote you into the next thing, and it does not always go so well, right? So how have you seen companies deal with that in helping people, or is it really just an individual thing that you have to work through?

Speaker 2 9:29

No, with companies, and that's what I do in my profession. I'm an effective communication consultant, and so I do go in and help teams find the teams. Why? Because what tends to happen we talk about you get promoted or you get hired for your skill set and your knowledge, and then you get fired and let go for your soft skills. So those soft skills, though, are actually easy to obtain and to to practice and to learn of. That is, some people don't realize that they have leadership qualities and they have leadership opportunities, because they don't think they fit that mold.

Speaker 1 10:11

Right.

Speaker 2 10:11

And I love going into teams and leaders, helping them find the diamonds in the rough, or the ones that would never say that they're capable for being a leader. And so that's what we go in. First is finding out the real natural behavior styles of everybody, because those of us that are dynamic or charismatic, we'll tell our bosses yeah, I want to be a leader, I want to be a boss, put me in charge, put me in coach. And then the ones that are more reserved and cautious, who are just as qualified, don't speak up and often think, oh, they should know, they should know I'm quality, they should know I can handle this. And no, they don't.

Embracing Diversity in Leadership Teams

Speaker 1 10:54

And even if they do, if you're not in front of them they're like well, they'll just keep doing their job, so we don't need to promote them, Right? I love that you said finding the diamonds in the rough. Have you ever read the book? I think it's quiet about the power of the introvert.

Speaker 2 11:09

No, but I want to now.

Speaker 1 11:10

Yeah, because extroverts right, you can sell yourself, you can do all these things. But introverts can do it just as well. They just do it in a different way and often are overlooked for leadership. Yes, so I love that you brought that up?

Speaker 2 11:27

Yes, and it's just so needed to. Really, I talk about talking in the language that your team hears. So one of the things I all the time is the golden rule is probably what's hurting your relationships and what's hurting your teams, because everybody treats others the way that they want to be treated, but in actuality, you have to treat others the way that they want to be treated. So, if they're outgoing and charismatic, are you fueling that? Are you mirroring that, giving them the energy and giving them the gold star that they want? Or if they're cautious and reflective, are you respecting the fact that they need time to process? It's not that they don't know what they're talking about or they don't know how to add to the conversation. They just need time and process.

Speaker 2 12:03

How do you motivate as a leader? Well, that's different for your team. Every single person is a different motivation and how they receive feedback and working for you in their best way. So you have to learn. That's the number one tip for anybody who wants to be in a leadership position is learning your strengths and how that brings out the strengths and others, because that's your goal is to get everybody in their line of genius, and as leaders, we oftentimes forget that and we put people in their stressors more than they need to be, so then they're never really able to shine, because they're always over, overworked, energy exertions like because you're not treating them the way that brings out the best in them that's fascinating one that one of the things that we talked about, actually, patty and I, when we had page erickson on last time was a little bit about those color wheels.

Speaker 3 12:58

As you and we did this at work front where we all took the color wheel, we were kind of given, hey, this is our top color, this is our second, third, fourth, sort of our second, third, fourth, sort of like last color, right. Anyway, the kind of way you described that made me think about sort of diverse teams, because there's a lot of value in not only how you understand and communicate with that person that has that, but the things that they bring to the team because of those ways that they communicate and how they act and respond and sort of their own experience. Do you see that in your professional life, as your training teams, that sort of the diversity is? It is sort of defined by kind of those colors, those attributes that they have.

Speaker 2 13:44

I think that you get caught in two situations where you can have a team that's in an echo chamber and they're very passive and they're very supportive, and so you lose the ability to push each other and to really come up with new ideas and new perspectives. Is the only way that that works, because if you come from same backgrounds, same experiences, you come in the same comfort. Then you just keep putting out the same old, so there's no innovation and there's no um. In football or sports, right, it's always steel against steel, like you want to have the best against the best, and allowing the different voices to come in is what's going to bring that. But if you shut down people that have different ideas or you don't give them the space to talk, because the ones that are dominant always take over, so the ones that are passive just are, over it, so like they're talking again, right, right, they're just debating to debate or they really have to get to the root cause.

Speaker 2 14:44

And I think, in general, humans want to be comfortable. We all seek out comfort and you can see that with the lack of diversity in groups and boards and teams, because it's just easier. So I think that's a key challenge for companies, or growth or startups, is to really want that. And then, if that's the goal, then how do we do that? How do we build the safety of not just everybody's welcome at the table? We talked about this a little bit, but you're wanted and your input is desired and you're appreciated, not just OK, there's an MTC and we need to fill it.

Speaker 3 15:34

Well, silicon Valley, you know, used to be a lot like that as well, right where they were, and I think we're kind of experiencing this, where it's the first wave, or the first couple waves, of people building companies and building the ecosystem are somewhat homogenous.

Speaker 3 15:49

It's a lot of the same. And you know, I didn't, I didn't start my career here in Utah. It was all outside of Utah and I could see the value of a highly diverse team, because that's exactly what we did was we were pushing on each other, we were working all towards the best things, that the collective experience was completely different from mine, the rest of the team, right, and so that just opened my eyes, opened the opportunities for the team. And so my, my question is around now that we're here and we kind of we definitely recognize that this is a need and we're starting to make strides towards doing that, things like looking further and trying, and we have women's leadership institutes and councils and things like that. But what are some things that that you think need to happen, maybe more than they are, so that those of us that are starting companies and building businesses and supporting the community can be better at getting those diverse teams?

Speaker 2 16:45

Well, I think the conversation on diversity is an important conversation to just start and recognize, because when you're always in a room and don't notice that everybody looks just like you, then that's comfort. And when you're in a minority and you're always the minority in a room you go to seek comfort when you have choices. So the issue lies in both. I've talked to companies who are into sponsorship or sponsor and they only have one woman on their team out of 20, but they only had two women apply. A lack of funding for startups, maybe, but you only have five women pitching their companies as opposed to 20 men pitching.

Speaker 2 17:33

So there is a conversation of everybody needs to get out of their comfort zone, to get comfortable eventually. So being willing to not accept, when you're in a room and you notice there's no diversity, Do you say something to the event planner? Do you take the time to go to events where you're the minority in the room? Are you putting yourself in an uncomfortable position in a place that you're totally welcomed at? But it feels different when you're one of a couple if you're lucky to be in a room whether you're welcome or not. So getting out to find out that perspective is really what I think is important is not just saying we want diversity is actually being part of the movement to create diversity. And it's hard, it's not easy, it's not comfortable. People like to stay with who they like and know and it takes. Nobody likes to go to networking events, you know.

Speaker 1 18:35

I don't know. I know a couple of people who maybe a couple.

Speaker 2 18:38

Yes, but everybody has to hype themselves up and talk about conversations and you know when women are in the room, they want to talk about things that are fun and entertaining too.

Speaker 2 18:47

You know my daughter is an anime nerd. You know when women are in the room, they want to talk about things that are fun and entertaining too. You know my daughter is an anime nerd. You know she doesn't get to talk to a lot of girls about anime.

Speaker 2 18:54

But when she finds the people she wants to talk to about, so trying to reach out of just the comfort or I have a business, or I have a label, or I have this reputation it's just getting to know people on a human level. And so when you see people at networking events or at events that are obviously in a minority, are you reaching out to make sure that they feel welcome and engaged and happy to be there so that the next time they show up it's just another friendly face? Those are the efforts that it takes and making sure when you're hosting panels, because one of our things with women in leadership is I don't want to have to have a women in leadership group that meets everyone. I would love the women in leadership to be on the boards of other chapters and really being the force of other SAS groups and marketing groups, and that we just come together to celebrate once in a while and catch up, but not something needed because we're so busy in other chapters. If that makes sense, yeah total sense.

Speaker 2 20:03

That's the goal. Is that they don't need us anymore. Putting me out of a job right, it's just more. That's our goal is that they don't need us anymore. Putting me out of a job right, it's just more. That's our vision and mission. And women and people of color want to talk about other things besides being a woman and being a person of color. They have other things to add to the conversation and they just happen to not be the majority ethnic group in Utah.

Speaker 2 20:27

And we just don't have the luxury in Utah. I mean, we talked about that before when we're number one in job growth and number 50th in women equality and number less for minority, we don't have the luxury to not work on it. That's right.

Speaker 3 20:41

I did hear recently just as I've been thinking about this topic for a long time and I was also talking to my wife a little bit about it where you know specifically you know being invited to events or being invited to apply to the job or being invited to like that doesn't it's I think women do that more than men do, but I think that's a huge opportunity for us to kind of you mentioned a little bit about that where it's like you've got to put yourself out there, but also those of us that are putting ourselves out there invite somebody else bring somebody with you.

Speaker 1 21:13

And I think you're.

Speaker 3 21:14

That's kind of what you're saying where, with this, this leadership group that you have as well, right, you want them to go out and be the ones affecting change all over the place, right and so we don't actually need the group potentially Right, because there it's happening everywhere.

Speaker 2 21:27

Yeah, because we do have thriving women's groups and organizations in Utah and when I attend those it's great and it's hundreds of women in the room. I just want it to be more mix of.

Speaker 3 21:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:42

We talk about that a lot of is classifying something like the Women's Leadership Institute or Women of Silicon Slopes or whatever it is. Does that do us a disservice? Because then we can put a bow on it and say this is a woman's issue instead of this is a humanity issue. This is, you know, could be a moral issue for some people. I don't know what are your thoughts on that. I think it's needed, but sometimes it also backfires, because then it's a sea of women and a couple of men allies who show up Yep.

Speaker 2 22:11

So that's where allies come in and we, the women's organizations, need to put the messaging in that men are welcome and that we are one of them and we put the invites out to please come to these groups. So the messaging has to be different. Unfortunately, in Utah we need the women's groups because there's just not enough representation everywhere else. So we need the support to work together, to grow together, to have the friendly faces in the room, and I think it's working. I mean, it definitely is working on the right direction. It's going a little bit slower than some of us would like, sure, and honestly, I didn't even realize it myself because I wasn't in the room. And then there's other conversations of time of the event, location of the event, childcare of the event.

Speaker 2 23:02

So there's so much but the start is acknowledging it, realizing and noticing it and then saying, okay, what do I have to do to make sure that representation is being represented? You know, because, we again it goes back to people are just comfortable. They just want you know they're throwing an event. They just want to call it the three friends they know, because they know they'll be there and then they know they'll bring other people.

Speaker 2 23:32

So so true. We all fall victim to to that, so it's just remembering to be uncomfortable, make connections, network and get out there, and women need to show up to the events, even if you're the only one in the space, and then invite more people next time. Don't give up like, don't stop showing up. That's the number one message I want to help women realize is it's a process and you are welcome and get out of your comfort zone.

Speaker 1 23:53

So you talk a lot about trust and I think that's interesting, as we talk about teams and showing up and belonging, some of those things we've touched on. I think when there is trust in a team, you work so much better, like it's so much more efficient. But often there is not trust in the teams or people don't feel like they can speak up or innovate or whatever it might be. What are some tips for managers or leaders would like to build that kind of culture?

Speaker 2 24:26

So again, it really goes back to behavior styles, because in the tech and startup industry there are certain behavior styles that are analytical and problem solving and results driven, that gravitate towards tech startups. Finance code that's where they fit in naturally. Finance code that's where they fit in naturally. So with that skill set and strength, one of the challenges comes with that is vulnerability. They do not like to fail in public, they do not like to not have the answers, and so when you have teams of those, it's really hard to get vulnerable. With women, it's even worse so if you have a woman who is results driven and analytical and vulnerability is their biggest challenge.

Speaker 2 25:14

They have a hard time making female friends. They will make more friends with men because they don't have to go deep. Often they can just stay surfacy, and it's not even that they don't want to go deep, it's just harder to really connect and they're not going to stay comfortable and they don't want to go deep.

Speaker 1 25:26

It's just harder to really connect and they're not going to stay comfortable and they don't want to talk about themselves.

Speaker 2 25:30

They'll listen to you all day, but they don't want to.

Speaker 1 25:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:33

So when you have industries that are very heavy one-sided, so you'll find the opposite in, like marketing and sales, you find the outgoing people pleasers and let's just, and that's a whole nother side. But the tools is one is self-awareness, is where am I not, where is it okay to fail and be okay with trust? It's not weaponizing people's shortcomings and failures. So that's as a leadership, that's your number. One tool is to make sure people are allowed to fail in public and it's okay, because that's the only thing everybody will learn from it. So simple, um, meetings of what's a win and a loss, you know, and it's on a regular so that it gets comfortable, so it doesn't start out. Everybody's going to share their big losses, but if it becomes routine, then they expect it and then it becomes okay for them to process and get through that.

Speaker 1 26:25

And it's not personal, it's more process it to process and get through that, and it's not personal, it's more process. It's process.

Speaker 3 26:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:29

And so also with people who are results driven and analytical, one of their cheer, like one of their motivators at work, one of the things that is finding mistakes, so that actually helps.

Speaker 1 26:44

They like to find mistakes, yeah. I know some people like that and I love them until I don't, and I'm like stop that.

Speaker 2 26:51

So where does that align? Is that an? Okay, because you're a member of the team and we got each other's back and this is what I'm really good at and you're totally qualified for your job and I have this extra. It's like the editor Everybody needs an editor, or is it? I'm better than you. I found your mistake.

Speaker 2 27:10

Yeah, and I don't even know why you have this job, you know where is. That's where the trust comes in, and being vulnerable is being OK with admitting things you don't know, and none of us are good at that, at being like I don't know. I made so many mistakes and that's another one of my goals. I made so many business mistakes that I would like to help others, not.

Speaker 1 27:31

Avoid and make yeah, get back Right.

Speaker 2 27:33

I think as you become an adult or you find any success in life or you've come around things the hard way. It's so important to be the person you needed.

Speaker 1 27:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2 27:41

So being able to help out and realize like it's okay, like your motivator at work is okay, that's fine. How do you use that Not to stress out somebody else to help motivate them? And so building that foundation of trust is really about letting people be vulnerable. You say what you mean. You mean what you say. You show up, you don't over commit, you don't over promise. So with fast growing teams or hybrid teams, it takes some work to build trust, but it doesn't move forward. You cannot have people failing and making mistakes in public or in their teams if you don't trust and then you can't learn from those and people are hiding it and then they're wasting time and energy because they're not coming to somebody who can help them Right right.

Speaker 1 28:27

That's really a leadership skill right, being that deliberate with the people. We think often leaders are the ones who have the outcomes or who make the money, which it could be all that. But really really good leaders know how to deal with people and bring out the best in people and then from there, growth is inevitable. Yeah, aligning those things Right. Yeah, Aligning those things.

Speaker 3 28:50

Right, I'm curious. A few more people of color hosting events.

Speaker 2 28:53

So opening it up to again one of the things that I loved Utah Tech Week last year that's a whole nother story of getting me back involved and getting me out of my own self-imposed isolation. 2022 was like the year of me mastering Candy Crush on the couch. I hit like 8,000, level 8,000.

Speaker 1 29:37

Hey, we all need our moments.

Speaker 2 29:39

It lasts a little too long, and so, um, utah Tech Week really brought me out of that show because it's just such a great I call it the wild, wild west of events and anybody can do it, and one of the things is, I just want people to be aware of what is out there, what opportunities you have. Um, silicon slopes here has a huge natural resource of capital, of innovation, of knowledge and of really camaraderie and family. It's one of those places that if I can't help you, I'm going to try to find somebody who can. I'm not the right person, but I do know somebody and it's been amazing.

Speaker 2 30:19

And people it's funny because people are like, oh, she's a connector, and it's not because of me, it's because there are so many people willing to help and be connected to. They are so open to the invitation and the introduction, and I don't think many people know that that's what is so exciting is when you give them an opportunity to shine or to provide a service or to provide a platform. It's there, they just don't know about it, and so that's one of my biggest goals is just letting more people know what is out there. And so many free events and so many free resources and so many free networking and some people just need that free step in. When you get more experience and you're starting to trip again, then you can get the private coach and then you can go into those private networking sessions, and but until then you just need a foot in the door to say hey this is the right place for you.

Speaker 1 31:19

Yeah, I did love that about it. There were so many different types of events that spoke to many different audiences. I do love that about Utah Tech Week yes, I love it so much Very cool. Well, I want to pivot a little bit as we're wrapping up and I want to ask you about your transition from Ella's bows into tech, because that's a very that seems like a really big jump. I'd love to hear how you made that decision.

Speaker 2 31:45

Even my jump into Ella's bows was a pivot. So, I started my leadership development training in Orlando. I was part of the leadership team of development training in Orlando. I was part of the leadership team of Universal Studios. Before that I was part of the training teams of Margaritaville opened up restaurants for them. Planet Hollywood in the 90s traveled the world and opened up restaurants for Planet Hollywood.

Speaker 2 32:03

So I'm hospitality industry, and then I had a bald baby girl in 2008. She had a real large head and, although I thought she was adorable, nobody knew she was a girl, and so I started making hair bows for her, and people started stopping me and asking me where I got the hair bows. Yeah, I googled how to make hair bows. That's how my company started. How?

Speaker 3 32:26

to make hair bows.

Speaker 2 32:27

That's so cool and people stopped me and it was right at the beginning of Facebook when you could actually make a business account. That wasn't really a business account. So Ella's Bows was my Facebook account and Etsy had just started and I put a horrible picture up of a flower in my kitchen tile with bad lighting and thought that was going to be it, and again it didn't sell on Etsy.

Speaker 2 32:49

But I was scrappy and so I was starting taking orders on Facebook and I walked past a store like an emporium and asked them if they would do consignment, and that led to four stores and Pinterest took off.

Speaker 2 33:01

Because you're an entrepreneur at heart, at heart, and I even I joke that I hired a organizer to come organize my house because we were like exploding with bows and ribbons and she was so upset with me because she had her business plan all laid out, not making a dime or any money I can't catch up with orders she's like this is not how it's supposed to work, Like that is business.

Speaker 2 33:23

It doesn't work how it's supposed to you, just try to keep up. And so I. It just took off and it, this little side hustle, turned into eventually seven-figure revenue. I wasn't doing it right, though. I didn't even realize I was successful at six-figure revenue until I was watching Shark Tank and I saw a company and I was like, oh I'm making that much I'm doing okay, you were just doing what you do, I'm just doing it.

Speaker 2 33:48

There's a difference between bootstrapping because you don't know any better, but bootstrapping because that's your best option. Yeah, and so that's another thing with women. I just want to help, like don't, you don't have to go it alone, you don't have to fake it. Same thing with asking for advice. I was in those stores and one of the Emporiums ended up in 2008, 2009,. The recession hit.

Speaker 2 34:12

They ended up turning their store into over 60% baby items, because that's the only thing that was thriving in retail was the baby industry, and so I didn't sit down with them to see like, oh well, what are some more options for me or how can I expand or what's some pricing? I just kept trying to figure it out on my own and it was successful, but at a greater cost, and I could have been more innovative and grown an easier way. And so my husband. Then that's in Orlando. I'm still working at Universe Studios and doing training and doing my side business, and my husband moved us out here to Utah, and so it wasn't a big deal, because I just went full into Ella's Bows and it really did explode and it was great, and my husband actually worked for me for three years and while I was still having babies. Yes, that's an amazing story.

Speaker 2 34:57

Four houses three C-sections and still running the business. Wow, I was a number one seller on the Zulily. I was in the Oscar gifting suites, People Magazine, still with no employees. All 1099s like just ridiculous. So I did not. Yeah.

Speaker 1 35:19

So I wanted to just catch up. You just keep going.

Speaker 2 35:23

Well, I wasn't passionate about it, it just happened to be good at it. In 2019, a local EO group here in Salt Lake, tony Robbins, came out with his DISC buy-in for his website, and a local EO group got ahold of his DISC assessments but didn't know how to read it and I'm a DISC specialist, which is effective communication specialist and so one of the companies brought me in and we had such a great experience with it that other companies in the EO group brought me in, and so I thought 2019, okay, I'm going to just go off and I created one consulting firm and this is what I was going to do help train and keep teams on the same path and lining the mission goals and I was flying out to California the day the world shut down in 2020. And so we all stayed home. And then Etsy reached out because I still had some. I still had Etsy running my boutique running and they asked if we could make face masks and I said sure we can make face masks and it was the mask apocalypse.

Speaker 2 36:31

I like to call for two years. It was um huge, I'm just. I had 22 seamstresses throughout the city.

Speaker 1 36:39

Anybody had a cut counter who knew that that would be? Anybody had a cut counter.

Speaker 2 36:43

I was like do you want to? Sew for me and um. So we just went full in for my husband again. Um lost his job in COVID. He became my head seamstress because he's an engineer by heart he's. I don't even sew your head seamstress.

Speaker 3 36:58

I had to.

Speaker 2 36:58

That's awesome, yes he did, and my kids all packaged all of the things I had to sew, I think a couple times, and even my son called me out. He's like, do you really want to send this? I guess not. We'll wait until dad gets home. I know, so I have no, so you know. What's interesting about that too, in the tech world I want women to know is I was sewing masks, thousands and thousands and thousands of masks, and did not sew.

Speaker 1 37:26

Yeah, same thing in the tech industry.

Speaker 2 37:28

There's so many ideas and startups of women who have ideas that don't know how to code, don't know anything about tech and it doesn't matter Like you figure it out.

Speaker 1 37:42

That's why you show up in the spaces for people to help you figure it out. Yeah, back to your. Just keep showing up.

Speaker 2 37:45

Just show up and ask, ask for help and be in the right spaces and your idea does matter and it can take you far with where you want to go. So my path is so jagged and I work with corporations. I went back to consulting in 2023. I wasn't doing tech, it was a lot of engineer groups and local businesses, some with the state, the cities, and then I fell in love with tech industry and startups.

Speaker 2 38:19

And I thought well, startups really could benefit too with they don't have an HR team and they don't have leadership development and they're trying to be scrappy and building teams really quick and you have the analytical partner who's trying to build the programs and then you have the sales partner who's over promising everything and they don't realize why and 70% of partners fail in startups.

Speaker 1 38:36

Is that right? 70% Wow.

Speaker 2 38:39

And my mom as an entrepreneur. She went into business with four different women and wasn't on speaking terms with any of them at the end, and so that was a big motivator for me too, is how much is writing on just speaking the same language and understanding um? One of the companies I worked for in park city. One of the three partners figured out that. So one of the personality types is more um self-critical, and so outcomes of things affect them emotionally, so if they suggested something and it didn't work out, they're affected by emotion.

Speaker 2 39:10

It's personal somebody like me, it's never personal, that's on you's personal. Somebody like me, it's never personal, that's on you, that's the restaurant, but for them it's very personal and so it was something that was like always rubbing. He was always having to pick the restaurant when everybody else would come in town and it stressed him out like crazy and he would send them messages back and forth like is this OK, what about this time?

Speaker 1 39:31

the messages back and forth like is this okay, what about this time?

Speaker 2 39:32

and they're like we don't care and they get so frustrated with him for like, just pick, and so when we were able to bring that to the table, it was the silliest aha moment of like, oh okay, we can both let go, I don't have to take it personal, because they really won't care. Yeah, and we'll be grateful that he's doing this out of his comfort zone and we appreciate it, so we're not going to give him a hard time for giving us art. So it's like simple things like that with startups and partnerships that I really like to, because you can't work. Some people start with startups. I don't even know their why.

Speaker 1 40:03

They don't even know.

Speaker 2 40:03

I didn't have an exit strategy with my my bow company. You know, when I went to sell I didn't have it in place. So little things like that is how we can all help.

Speaker 1 40:13

Yeah, like we all just need the help. I really am a firm believer that communication creates reality. So, whether you're right, whether it's through your body language, or whether the words you say, or understanding other people and what they do something really simple like the example you just gave, but really matters You're like, oh he cares, let's, let's do this, let's understand this about him.

Speaker 2 40:36

And he can't help it. He mostly has a reaction that he has to talk himself out of. So you're putting him in a stressful. He doesn't want to. It's not something he likes. And like what you said about body language, well, 55 percent of all communication is body language. Yeah, so behavior is communication. So if you don't know how to read their behaviors, you're missing out on a lot.

Speaker 3 40:58

Insightful.

Speaker 2 40:59

Of how they're communicating.

Speaker 1 41:00

It's interesting so many things. Well, we want to respect your time. We want to close on a personal note. Either a favorite song, a favorite musical, a favorite book. What's something that you're loving right now? Favorite musical?

Speaker 2 41:15

was Six that just came into town. I loved that Do you usually like musicals, or just that one. I like Wicked. I fell asleep during Phantom of the Opera, so anything that's too long it was a mess Les Mis too.

Speaker 1 41:31

I love a mess Les Mis too. I like.

Speaker 2 41:32

I love a couple of power, but I have no attention span. So, it's like embarrassing to admit Like. I have.

Speaker 3 41:41

Yeah, yeah, but Wicked was good, wicked was good, six was good. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 41:48

I really like old school skating rink music. Oh, back in Florida, freestyle was a big thing, which is not.

Speaker 1 41:55

Is that like disco?

Speaker 2 41:56

No, it's like Stevie B. Look up, you have to go on. Stevie B is the old school, but it's Miami bass type music is what it is. So freestyle like back in skating rinks.

Speaker 1 42:10

So do you skate or are you a skater? No, not anymore. I aspire to be a skater. It's been so cool to me.

Speaker 2 42:18

It does you start getting fearful of the falling? You get to a certain age where, like even my shoulder right now, is tweaked.

Speaker 3 42:27

Even a little fall will cause a lot of damage.

Speaker 2 42:30

I know it's really the worst part about aging is the stuff you can't control. And it humbles you really quick.

Speaker 1 42:36

Well, we can watch people skate. There is that I know? Okay, well, you've been delightful. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Speaker 2 42:43

It was so fun. I love this. I appreciate it. I love it.