Shelley Goodell: Understanding the Landscape of Gender in the Workplace

Shelly Goodell is Vice President of E-commerce and Guest Services at the Larry H Miller Megaplex. Her journey from stay-at-home mom and Boy Scout store employee to military officer and now corporate leader is inspiring. She shares how the Women's Leadership Institute's Career Development Series gave her the tools and vocabulary to ask for opportunities and overcome professional barriers.  Focusing on male allyship, she highlights how initiatives like the Women's Leadership Institute can create lasting change and inspire collaborative problem-solving. 

Discover the crucial role of psychological safety in leadership and its impact on innovation and growth. Shelly emphasizes the importance of career drivers in one-on-one meetings and how leadership resources like the WLI program can guide young professionals. Learn how expressing belief in someone's potential and fostering an environment where individuals feel safe to experiment and fail can lead to a more inclusive and collaborative workplace culture. This mindset builds trust and challenges the notion of scarcity in success, creating a culture where everyone can thrive.

www.wliut.com
@utwomenleaders

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to Elevate, a Women's Leadership Institute podcast, where we showcase stories, celebrate successes and shift culture. Hello and welcome to another episode of Elevate, a Women's Leadership podcast. My name is Patti Cook, I'm your host today and I'm here with the delightful Shelly Goodell, who is the Vice President of E-commerce and Guest Services at the Larry H Miller Megaplex. Yep, good morning, patti, great to be here, good to be here with you. So I always like guests to kind of introduce themselves and share something personal with us to make you human. So we kind of know your background, whatever that might be.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Well, thanks for that. I'm really happy to be here. I've been with the Larry H Miller Company about 12 years, but before that I have been a stay-at-home mom. I worked at the Boy Scout store, hey.

Speaker 1: 0:59

I've been there.

Speaker 2: 1:00

That's had sons right, and I'm a prior military officer who served in Desert Storm. I didn't know that you were a military officer.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Yeah, wow, so really well-rounded, lots of places.

Speaker 2: 1:14

Yeah, I guess that's true. But sometimes it's just the journey of life, right. You don't set the path, you just kind of follow sometimes where things take you, and then when you look back it's like wow, that that's not really what I thought when I was in sixth grade, right?

Speaker 1: 1:28

Right, I feel like it's much more like that now than it has ever been. So you are a graduate of our programs the Career Development Series and I want you to talk a little bit about your journey with that, because you have an interesting story. So tell us about the series you were a part of and something that you've learned in your time with WLA.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Perfect. Well, I was in the inaugural cohort of the career development series. Ok, Now, that in and of itself was a little bit of a journey, because I had been asked to represent my company and we were at a conference. I don't remember what the name of the conference or the gala, or whatever it was. I just remember seeing your booth and this being advertised and, um, I went back to my company and I asked for sponsorship and that was the first thing asking for sponsorship and I got it, and I was the first person from my company to be in that inaugural series. So that was a big step right there.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Just to get that foot in the door.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Wait, so I want to stop there for just a minute. Asking for sponsorship. Did you already feel like you were pretty well versed in that Like? Did you go home and write it out? Like what was that process like?

Speaker 2: 2:43

No, I just really had decided that if you're going to get things, you have to ask for them. And it was scary and I fully expected to be told no, sure, there was no provable ROI Right, there was no beginning. Yeah, there was no reputation yet, there was no outcomes that I could lean on and I just had to say you know, we don't really do career development, that hasn't been a thing. But I think this is important, I think this is something I would really like to do. Would you be willing? And I think, if I'm being honest, I expect it to be told no, but I think maybe they said yes just because sometimes other departments had conferences or things that were baked in and it was just the nature that my department didn't have that and maybe they were just trying to do something nice for a department that didn't get to go to some of these things but they said yes, so I don't care.

Speaker 2: 3:43

They said yes, and I got to be a part of this inaugural cohort. If you remember, I said I was prior military. We all know that that's male dominated so I had learned to navigate, perhaps, in that world. But now this was a different way of looking at everything. That was much more me and as I was sort of sharing with you before we started, I knew these things that happened. They felt icky, they felt uncomfortable, there felt like there was barriers that I didn't understand and I felt it. But WLI started to give me vocabulary to understand it.

Speaker 2: 4:19

And when you have the ability to define it. It becomes real and it's no longer scary, it's not as much of an emotional trigger, it's now something that you can start to work with. That was super important. But the second part was being in a room with other women who were very successful, who were also exceptionally career minded, who wanted more, who were not afraid to say that they wanted to do more with their careers. They had passions and talents and and all together that was just such a new and different environment.

Speaker 2: 4:52

I can't really tell you, even on a sports team, that I had ever had an experience quite like that, because sports teams are so frequently male coaches and or within the confines of another larger organization. So this was really the first experience of all women, about women for women, and that in and of itself was magic, and I don't have the vocabulary to describe that, but it opened up new possibilities in my thinking about what women could do, what it was okay for them to even hope for or want to do. And then everything started to shift in my mind about well, what do I want to do? What could I do? What could I do to help someone else, and I really know that WLI was this catalyst moment in my life and in my career and I learned so much just being there.

Speaker 2: 5:50

I've often referred to it as an executive leadership program for women. Um, that is not different than maybe any other executive leadership program, except it's always in the vocabulary of women, it's in the perspective and paradigm of women, and I think I shared with you that. At first people thought, oh, you've just come to this woman's complaint group and I had to really correct them and I would bring the curriculum back and show them what we had been talking about. And it was the farthest from a woman's complaint session. And as they would look at the curriculum, they were like, oh, that's really good.

Speaker 1: 6:31

And they were right, it was real stuff.

Speaker 2: 6:34

It was really good. It was about learning to work with others, understanding collaboration with people whose personalities or thought processes are different from you. It was about learning how to lead teams and what that meant to deal with those kinds of things. It was about bringing your personal brand and making sure that that represented what you wanted it to as far as things were going and it's not to say that they whitewashed some of the problems, but that just wasn't the core and that really began to change the mindset of my leadership on what they had allowed me to do, when they could see the curriculum was so powerful.

Speaker 1: 7:11

I really appreciate that because internally, pat, nicole and I we talk often of this right Because there are many, many women's groups, as there should be right. There should be many, many women's groups. We really want to focus on the business acumen that we can give you, the language of the landscape that you touched on. Those are really important to us. And then also, like last week, we had our guests on who took their stuff back to their teams and teach them what you are learning. So it's got that ripple effect that I think women are so beautiful at. So I love that you touched on all of those.

Speaker 2: 7:52

Yeah, we still do career drivers and I know that may not necessarily mean something to someone listening, but it's something that we learned in the program that helps you assess what is the temperature of your employees at any given moment and understanding that that could change. And yes, career drivers are still a part of my one-on-ones with my team.

Speaker 1: 8:09

I love it. Did they get nervous? The first time Nicole whipped out career drivers with me, I was like wait, what is this? What are we?

Speaker 2: 8:14

doing. They kind of did. And then it was fun and I'm still using my original deck of cards. I know there's digital versions of this now, but this was just a really important tool, and that's one of the things about WLI is I got tools that I could use to further my leadership potential and use to help others. And now, you're right, one of the biggest gifts of WLI is learning how important it is to share that downhill with young men and women who are just starting in their careers and they need a tap on the shoulder sometimes to say I believe in you and you're ready.

Speaker 1: 8:49

A hundred percent. What a great segue. I'd love to go there now. So you open the doorway to say, hey, this is important. Then you're able to bring back you know tangible evidence that it was important and how it was impacting you, and then you were able to bring other people to the program as well. So how do you figure out who needs that tap on the shoulder? How do you actually do that as a manager and a vice president?

Speaker 2: 9:14

Well, first of all, I don't know how much influence I had on actually getting people here, but every year I asked can we send another person to WLI, can we send another person? And somehow it just caught on. And now I think there's people in the cohort from the Larry H Miller company almost every year and I know that I was able to get an employee of mine, a young female, in the program this year and I am thrilled to be able to do that. But having a resource and knowing that it existed, that was really number one right. Where could you even send young women to get some advanced leadership skills? But tapping someone on the shoulder, that's. That is so important, and I'm not sure I can tell you exactly where that became crystal in my mind.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Okay.

Speaker 2: 10:05

But once you understand maybe it's because you have to have somebody do it for you once, and then you understand- and then it's a pay it forward, and then you get it how that impacted your life.

Speaker 2: 10:17

But it's in such little things, people, every person who is trying to do something they've never done before or has a talent, that they're not really sure how good it is. There is always, perhaps, a little bit of fear, and when you say I'd like to see that, or I believe you could do this or try it without consequences, I give you permission to practice and let's just see. Please don't be afraid, I'm not expecting perfection that changes their willingness to trust. It's all about psychological safety and I know that's the new buzzword that's on the street, but it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 10:54

I love that buzzword Me too.

Speaker 2: 10:55

Whatever you want to call it. When people feel safe, they will try new things. You want innovation. You need to create psychological safety so you can talk about it all day long. But that has to be real, that if I bring you something you don't have to use it. But you can't critique it and punish me if it wasn't the choice of that day, or I will not be willing to do it another day If you don't choose it. But you say that was good work. You're getting better. Please keep trying.

Speaker 1: 11:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:26

That tells me that I just am not quite there yet. But you see something in me and that's so important when someone else sees something in you that you might've secretly hoped was there or thought was there, but when someone else sees it and expresses that to you, it is like having fetters taken off that you now are going to like.

Speaker 2: 11:50

Well, maybe I can, and that is such a simple and easy but precious gift to give another person, and it costs you nothing, you know. While we're on this topic, I want to talk about this idea of scarcity.

Speaker 1: 12:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:04

That if you're going to succeed, then I somehow can't.

Speaker 1: 12:07

Right.

Speaker 2: 12:09

It's a high stakes where there can only be one.

Speaker 1: 12:13

Yep.

Speaker 2: 12:13

You know, I think we all maybe are socialized to think that a little bit, because in sports one team wins, right, but there's a winner and a loser.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Yes, there's a first place and then there's not another first place, and if you're second place, you weren't as competitive. Yes, yeah, somehow it's less. Yes.

Speaker 2: 12:30

But the reality in the world is I don't see that as often as I thought. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, because it does. But for you to succeed, patty, doesn't threaten me. It gives me an opportunity to look at you and say maybe I could too in the space that I'm in and to lift up a young person or another person doesn't minimize me. It actually just builds space for other people. And that is important to learn too, that just because you help another it doesn't mean that you're somehow limiting yourself, and there there are probably use cases out there. I understand that. I'm just saying in general. In my experience I have learned that the more people I lift up, the more confidence I get and the more willing I am to do it and the more the pie grows because now everybody is contributing more. I had to learn that.

Speaker 1: 13:28

Yeah Well, it's one of those counterintuitive things right. I eat a piece of the pie. There's going to be less pie, but actually what happens? It gets more like the more you eat it, the more you share it, the more you spread it. There are more opportunities there become.

Speaker 2: 13:43

There's more people building pies, yeah, so there's more pie to go around. In many, many situations that can happen, yeah, and I'm grateful for that knowledge, because lifting someone else up, helping tapping them on the shoulder, helping them see an unknown talent, or maybe when they weren't so sure they were going to risk showing, has become one of the joys of my life. Oh, I love that exactly.

Speaker 2: 14:15

I don't get paid. I don't monetize that, but it is one of the pleasures of my work and now that I have learned that powerful lesson, I could do that in any job because it's not about yes, it's not about the title. It's about the really looking at the people and being very concerned with helping them and giving them opportunities.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Yeah, okay, so you. There was a lot there. There's a few things that I want to unpack. First of all, you just barely said that it has become one of the joys, and I love that because that means that you're growing and that perhaps maybe you didn't know that that was something you adored so much when you first started. Perhaps maybe you didn't know that that was something you adored so much when you first started, but I, even just from my experience with you, can tell what a great human development like lover of people, embracing growth and helping other people do that that comes so naturally to you. So I love that you have found that and know that that's very transferable to any other place, that you are not even just in the workplace but anywhere else.

Speaker 1: 15:24

And what an amazing leadership skill. That is right, because leaders often work through their values, and while we have skill sets, we also have values, and that's very value driven to me, right. Helping develop people that's also something that makes my heart sing is to see people develop. And to me, right, helping develop people that's also something that makes my heart sing is to see people develop and to say, yes, you really did that and what a great job you did and all those kinds of things. So thank you for that. That is a great thing that you bring. The second thing I want to talk about is psychological safety. So I did my master's in leadership and communication and so we talked a lot about building teams and you have to have psychological safety in order to have innovation. And while it doesn't seem like it pairs, that is actually the work of WLI, because when you bring all the genders together, we want them to work well together.

Speaker 2: 16:18

Yes.

Speaker 1: 16:18

Right. So there's that permission, there's that if, if bias and all those things were not troublesome, how could we work together? How could we do this better? And companies who've learned to embrace that really are doing better.

Speaker 2: 16:35

You know, I heard Gail Miller say once the only people we don't love are the ones we haven't met yet. Because once you sit down at the table with someone and learn their life, it's really hard not to really come to appreciate them and have a different feelings for them. And I think that's really important when you have a team is that you curate purposely. You curate an environment of curiosity that says I really don't know much about you or your life or where you come from or the things about you that are different. But if I take a moment to be curious, I find things that we can relate on and we can come together on, even if we're not going to come together on everything. But that just isn't important. I just have to respect you and care about you as a human being so that we can work together. And it's really fun to see people who are very different and yet they come to appreciate others on their team and then the magic happens because they work harder, they work together.

Speaker 1: 17:36

There's this respect.

Speaker 2: 17:37

Yes, they work without fear. They ask questions when there's this respect. Yes, they work without fear. They ask questions when they don't know and if somebody answers without any sense of well, you should have known that Right. And I always tell people if somebody doesn't know, why do we care? Why they don't know, why don't we?

Speaker 1: 17:50

just tell them, because that will shut them down. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:53

Why don't we just tell them if someone can share something with me, I would love to know what I don't know. I want to be surrounded by the smartest people in the room, and if I know something they don't know, then I want to share that, because then we're all stronger together.

Speaker 2: 18:07

And the silliest examples of this are shortcuts in Excel. Yes, right, you knew how to do that. That was magic. Teach me Right. Oh, I know one, let me show you. And then everybody is going faster and more effectively and the information is just flowing. And so I think that when we want to have highly effective teams who feel safe, you have to curate that. I don't know that it happens naturally. Maybe it does, but I found that when you make that an expectation, just like any other KPI, then that's what's going to get done, cause what gets measured is what gets done and then everybody just can blossom and do their best work.

Speaker 1: 18:46

Yeah, I love that explanation. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about language that you talked about in the beginning. There's often a landscape of work and some things are said and some things are not said. There's often a landscape of work and some things are said and some things are not said, and as we maneuver through work or professions, we have to figure what that is for every company culture we go in. How has that happened for you and what tips would you give for women who are looking to navigate some of those unsaid things in the workplace?

Speaker 2: 19:16

So the first thing is understanding what some of those unique things to women are and having vocabulary to understand that. And I don't want to focus on the negative, but I'm just going to pick one. Yeah, for many women there is a maternal penalty that you leave the workplace to care for a family whether it be children or or parents or another family member and then after some period of time you're going to reenter the workforce and there's this gap. So that's a little bit of a penalty that can be unique to women, especially if they're going to stay home with children for a period of time. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 19:55

Right, I didn't know that was going to be a penalty. I didn't know that that choice to stay home with my children would then put my career behind and maybe put behind my salary potential, because there would be this gap. Resume more about all of the volunteer work I was doing in that time, because sitting on boards is sitting on boards Robert's Rules of Orders, even if it's not used today, I mean, the things are the same and I was learning so much during that time that actually I brought into the workplace when I came back, but I didn't know how to really speak to that and to really leverage the fact that you don't become static. You're learning different avenues and I've also come to learn in that regard that sometimes being a generalist in something where you've experienced a whole bunch of different things, like I have, and I'm not really a specialist in a particular skill set that makes me sometimes more open-minded and able to flow into things that I've never done before.

Speaker 1: 21:08

Sure.

Speaker 2: 21:09

Because I'm not focused on one aspect, and I think that that helped me a lot learning that, yes, these things are out there. Yes, that was going to be hard to come back into the workforce after a break, but I also had been developing skills that were useful. And the funny thing is, when you go the other direction, think about it this way so you've been in the workforce and you've got these great skills, and now you're going to take a break to care for a family, to care for children, to take a sabbatical, to upskill, reskill, whatever. You're just going to be out of the workforce for a period and then you go do volunteer work.

Speaker 2: 21:46

That's different and now you bring all that skillset and you're sharpening it and you're free to be creative and innovative, because they're a little bit more open in what you can do.

Speaker 1: 21:56

And there's some credibility there.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, but so it's kind of interesting to me how that works. But back to these things. You and the WLI team helped us have words around what were the potential unique situations for women. Yeah, having a common vocabulary and a way to understand it made it so that when I would come up against those things because they do exist, they exist for everyone I would anticipate them, but not in a way to get emotionally triggered, but to say, if this happens, this is the way I want to show up in that instance and do I get it right all the time?

Speaker 2: 22:33

Oh heavens, no, I have to keep practicing, but I'm far better than I was, because I didn't understand why would you say that Right and why would you do that? Yep, and now I understand better about unconscious bias, and the unfortunate truth about it is is now I understand when I see it in myself, because that is true also. Also, and I want to show up better and I hope others are trying to show up better for me and for anyone else but we don't get that right all the time and I hope people will keep practicing and keep trying, even if we don't get it right all the time.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree with all of that. I think the interesting thing is so we so Pat has a presentation she gives about the five challenges that men have working with women and the five challenges of women working with men, and it is. It has been pretty magical to watch her give that presentation and how it opens up people in the room because then they can know not always what to expect, because it's not always the same, but when one of them is that women feel dismissed, yeah, that's so common.

Speaker 1: 23:43

And it's like, yes, I do feel dismissed. So from the beginning, you're like I have this feeling, I don't know what it is, and then, to put language to it, like I'm dismissed. Yes, I was in that board meeting, I said something and no one picked up on it, you know, even though it was a good idea. So I love that you pointed that out, not because it's negative, but because people are different and have different frameworks they're working from and understanding that is powerful.

Speaker 2: 24:07

I want to share a story with you without giving too much away. So when I was in the program and learning about how this happened, instead of feeling frustrated I knew now could understand what was happening. So I went to a trusted male counterpart and I said will you listen for this? I'm not asking you to do anything, I'm just asking will you try to listen for this and will you tell me if you see it happening or if I'm really being too sensitive or if I'm just not understanding the landscape? Just listen for me. And he came back and he apologized and he could count the number of times in that meeting that a female not myself who had tried to sort of put forth an idea had either been shut down, talked over or someone else had run with that idea. And now that he saw it he couldn't unsee it Right.

Speaker 1: 24:56

Which is good for you.

Speaker 2: 24:57

Yes, and it was confirming.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:00

Now the next step in this allyship is is once, when he saw it, he realized that it's happening, and then him being able to do something about it is the next and much harder step actually, um, and and that takes practice and courage and some time too. But to just have someone else say, yes, I see it, and then that helped me say, okay, ladies, in my little circle here, when that happens, I'm going to try to say, hey, I think I liked what she or he or whomever was saying. Can we circle back to that? If I see anyone have that happen to them? Because it happens to men as well and it happens to all kinds of people. It just happens to be more frequently that it happens to females, especially if they're the only one in the room.

Speaker 1: 25:55

Yeah, there's actually research about that, right At least 30%, three or four, so that they can do that very thing. Hey, so-and-so just said this, or let's circle back around to what Shelly just said.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Yeah, and so that was the beginning. But it's not like all of a sudden you have everything figured out. It's that you get this little bit of information that helps you understand the problem. And then, as you begin to understand the problem, you can evaluate it more clearly and you become less triggered. And then, as you do that, you start to work on the actual problem and not be upset at people. The same way. Then you can say, okay, we see this happening. Now I know what I need to do. I need to be cognizant myself, I need to be aware and I need to be able to say for someone else.

Speaker 2: 26:40

Could we circle back to that? Could we hear more about what so-and-so had to say on this topic? I found that very interesting. I'd like to explore that some more, and to do that is to merely bring attention to it without let's see, what do I want to say?

Speaker 2: 26:55

I guess this Pat has a perspective that is just in my mind. So, um, it just fits, and that is Pat does not alienate people. Pat brings people together at the table to work on problems, and not every group has taken that approach. I love that and, as I've gone through WLI, it is the opposite of becoming angry and frustrated at other people, it is learning to navigate a problem together. And so when we can look at it from that perspective, it changes the way I show up. It changes the way I feel about it.

Speaker 2: 27:35

I don't feel the same anger and frustration and desire to lash out. I feel like this is a problem. I know how to tackle problems. Problems can be tackled. When any collaborative people decide to look at it, then you can start to tackle it in a small group and then that has the ripple effects out. I felt like that started for me in WLI, with the women getting yeah, this is happening, okay, let's define the problem, and then learning how to show up in ways that support others and helps get ourselves heard. And another important piece to me that I love about Pat is that when women show up and they take that step, they're holding a door open for someone else later and leaders like Pat and many others that I'm not going to name because that's not fair. They showed up and they held open a door, they took a risk, they started something, they entered a space that really was not yet a thing and now they've held open space. I don't know how many women have gone through the program now.

Speaker 1: 28:32

We're up to almost a thousand alumni.

Speaker 2: 28:34

Okay, that's incredible. So now a thousand women know the same things the same way and they can talk about it and lean on each other and they can speak up. That ripple effect grows, but it's, I hope, growing in the positive way that it's intended that we're going to collaborate with all of the workforce on how we can do this better. And that's the piece that's so powerful in this is it's not me against you. It's like let's link arms and figure out how we're all going to do this better to make it better for everybody. And we do know now that there are studies that are showing there is an ROI, there is a business case, there is a people case and there's also, you know, kind of a values case to it as well. But that's the best piece of this whole thing. It's just the positivity in it and the hope and the lifting up rather than the tearing down.

Speaker 1: 29:22

I love that you said that One of the things that drew me to the Women's Leadership Institute was the positivity, because there are so many negative things that could be said yes, right, and often there are said about the status of women in our state and our state in general. And those can be true, right, and we can take a positive spin on it, because when it's positive, people want to come back and they want to help, they want to be allies because they feel like they have something to contribute. And I also love your point about it's not personal, it's problem solving yes, which we all can do really well if we put our heads together. So great points. In a conversation I had with Nicole a couple of weeks ago, I asked her about her feelings of WI and the word she said was hope yeah, and I love that you just said that too, there is hope.

Speaker 2: 30:18

And you're right, we can see that there's a problem and we can still feel good about the progress that we're making and doing better, because we know that things change with knowledge and with time and and they can be slow. It can be slow, but that can be frustrating, true, but they are changing because from Pat to my generation to, hopefully, my children's generations, it's changing. And and one thing we forget is that we always talk about how women are socialized, but men are socialized too. We're all socialized, we're all part of a culture that we may or may not be fully aware of how that's impacting us. And again, coming back to that knowledge and vocabulary gives us a moment to pause and decide. Is this how I want to show up? Yeah, and if you want to change, you have that opportunity. You have that opportunity. And now that there are spaces that we can have these conversations, those who are ready can jump right in.

Speaker 1: 31:14

Yeah. So I want to pivot just a little bit in our remaining time to. You went back and got a master's degree in MBA. Remaining time to. You went back and got a master's degree in MBA, so you've done the professional development WLI and you also went back and did your um, your MBA. Tell me like the impetus of that, and I feel like more and more women are going back for advanced degrees. Uh, tell me the ROI of that.

Speaker 2: 31:39

So right now what happened is I went to WLI mind blown opportunities, options, little more courage. Other women who were had gone back to get an MBA were encouraging to me that tap on the shoulder and then I'd been successful asking once. So I asked twice and I was scared to death. My undergraduate was not business. So this was a big leap for me to believe that I could do this. But I decided that if the company, if I were selected for company sponsorship to get my MBA, I would be silly not to do it.

Speaker 2: 32:16

Whether I felt like I could or not, if they selected me, they knew what they were getting Right. So the self-talk you tell yourself sometimes when you, when you're not sure.

Speaker 1: 32:24

Right.

Speaker 2: 32:24

And I did it and it was really hard and I don't regret it, and so much that I learned, personally and professionally, what's the ROI? Well, the ROI is me, I'm the ROI, that's number first.

Speaker 2: 32:37

I love that I am number one, the first ROI. I am a better person. I have a better viewpoint about the world. I like the way I show up. I like the potential that my fellow classmates saw in me and were some of them willing to share with me. That was a tremendous boost.

Speaker 2: 33:22

No-transcript ROI is a lot financial when you're a person. I challenge you to think beyond that that your life is the entire investment that you have. If you are a private equity firm and your life and your skills and what you can bring is the equity that you can invest, when are you going to invest it and what return do you get? Now, financial is an important return, but there's a lot of other pieces in my life that I want as a return and I feel like the ROI of that program for me went far beyond just my career. Why of that program for me went far beyond just my career. It went to how I feel about myself, my confidence, my ability to to manage, through stress and hard problems, Everything that scares me now imposter syndrome, which is a whole nother topic. I just look back at that and I say you did something that scared you, that you didn't know you could do, and you did it and you did it Just try this.

Speaker 2: 34:22

So it builds um a little success, builds a little bit more success. To tell someone else, I wasn't sure I could do it either, but you know what I believe if you show up every day, I believe you can do this now, in a weird flip side of that, yeah, tell me. I listened to all the other podcasts are so wonderful. And um the woman from women in Tech.

Speaker 1: 34:43

Uh-huh, trina, yes.

Speaker 2: 34:45

I believe it was her Forgive me if that's not right Said don't over-prepare and over-train.

Speaker 1: 34:54

Yes, she did that you can.

Speaker 2: 34:56

Women have this tendency to want to be 100% before they will go for that job.

Speaker 1: 35:01

Yeah, I call it the getting ready to get ready. I'm going to get ready to get ready, to get ready, to get ready.

Speaker 2: 35:06

And I think that you need to balance that as a woman, and I'm struggling with that right now. Patty, I just finished an MBA and my brain says, oh, what do you got to do now to be qualified? And then I listened to her on that podcast and I sat down and I thought she's so right. There is being skilled, there is being competent, there is being on the cutting edge. There is that I agree a hundred percent. But then there's also this place where it becomes an excuse to not try it today, because if you just had fill in the blanks, you'd be better prepared tomorrow. And I think exactly what she said yes, be skilled, but don't wait. If you have something you want to do, just do it and don't let that become the perpetual. I just got to get this one more thing, or I just got to have this one more competency, or I just have to get something else.

Speaker 1: 36:02

That can become a real hindrance competency, or I just have to get something else that can become a real hindrance. That's such a fine line because, as you're saying that, I'm like. I'm a lover of knowledge I could take all these courses. I'm like, what certificate am I going to get next? But I don't want it to stand in the way of me doing the actual work of whatever it is that I'm being taught. But then I also have this feeling of like when am I good enough?

Speaker 1: 36:24

When am I qualified enough? When are other people going to see me as qualified enough? So I think those are all real concerns.

Speaker 2: 36:31

I like to continue to learn, that's always going to be something I'm drawn to. But I can't let that sense of I have to be one more thing. I have to have one more thing before I can try this. I have to fight that and really go for it today. Interview today if that's what you're trying to do, apply today, negotiate today.

Speaker 1: 36:59

Face that fear.

Speaker 2: 37:00

Face that fear and allow yourself to fail. That is so hard. I so don't like that. No that is not something that's comfortable for me, but I've learned the hard way that if there's no room for failure in your life, there's no room for success. Yeah, it just that you cannot have one without the other. So if you can't take risks, you can't get as much potential return. There's just gotta be some that, that and that means some failure, and I don't like it. It's uncomfortable, it's scary, but it's a reality.

Speaker 1: 37:30

Well, how do you get to where you want to go if you've never been there before without some kind of failure?

Speaker 2: 37:34

You just take a whole bunch of classes and then you'll be totally prepared, right? No, it doesn't work that way, exactly.

Speaker 1: 37:40

It doesn't work that way. Work that way exactly. It doesn't work that way. Well, and it goes back to team building. Right, like, the point of a good team is they fail fast and they fail often, so they can find what works. Yes, yeah, but somehow, when we get to our individual selves, we're like no, no, no, I've got to do this perfect or do this right or whatever. That is so great, excellent, great points. Um, my last question is you talked about, like you know, maybe in five years we'll come back and be like oh, all those things we said on the podcast are not right, you know, and that's okay because we're learning and growing. But what is something you feel our state is doing really well in terms of women, companies or your company, and what's something that maybe could be improved on? What would you like to see?

Speaker 2: 38:23

that's really big. But I'm going to start at my company. Yeah, so my company is trying really hard. No company is perhaps perfect, but they're trying. We now have three women in the C-suite at the top of the Larry H Miller Company. That's fabulous. That starts to show what women can do and open the idea that we could have more. Down to my location I was looking at it today half of the GMs of every Megaplex theater are female. Nice Sometimes, I mean we have 15 locations, so sometimes it's 8-7, 7-8 break, but really that's really encouraging to me that that's the case, really encouraging to me that that's the case. We're really leaning into.

Speaker 2: 39:08

With our chief people and culture officer being a female. She really has been able to bring to the highest levels this idea of diversity, equity, inclusion and the business case for that. So information is trickling into all of the various veins of the company and that in and of itself is going to help exact change, which I love, that they've taken the elevate her challenge and one of the things that they've implemented and I won't get the exact right, but we now have maternity and paternity policies. So things are changing. I see the wheels turning. I see people understanding and seeing and moving to make changes and talking about it.

Speaker 1: 39:50

And it's a huge thing, right, even if it's not perfect.

Speaker 2: 39:53

We're talking about it, the wheels are moving, the change is happening, the desire exists as far as our state I love the state. Utah is such a beautiful, magical place to live. I really love Utah and we have the same thing happening there. We have women and men at the table in various places talking about these things and those are having a ripple effect out. I know we've got work to do and we're not there, but we have people like Pat and we have other organizations. We have women who are now getting into different places, who are spending their social capital to talk about these things when they can and helping bring that information and, most importantly, we have these incredible male allies who are coming to the table and saying I see it, I get it, I want to help be a part of this change. What can we do?

Speaker 2: 40:47

I've heard it on this podcast from the various males that have come on and talked about it and that just gives me so much hope because when we come to the table together, then we're solving this. Some of these organizations talked about Garf was one of them. You know the ways that they've done this and the business case that they're seeing, but also the people case, and that is so incredible that we have these, these male allies that are willing to do this with us. And when they spread that in their circles and the females are spreading it in their circles we're just getting more information out to people to be able to think about it, maybe develop the vocabulary to look at it and decide and the thing that gets me the most and I I'm not emotional, so there you go.

Speaker 1: 41:33

You've got me that dad.

Speaker 2: 41:34

That said, I do this differently with my daughter now because of my experiences with Pat Jones and WLI. That's going to change the future.

Speaker 1: 41:43

Yeah, it had an impact.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Yes.

Speaker 1: 41:46

Because you just can't change your professional life, it will have that ripple effect in your personal life as well.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 41:53

Yes, what a beautiful place to end on. Thank you so much for bringing that back around and for the male allyship like the male at your work that you said just look and see, just look and see what you find you know. And he said, yeah, I did see it. And now what do we do about it together? Right, all that process. It is always a delight to have you. You are so well spoken, so thoughtful. Really appreciated your comments today. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 42:19

Thank you, patty. And again, wli was a huge impact in my life. I think I can sit here in front of you today this way because of starting this journey that many years ago with WLI. So thank you to all of you at WLI for your courage, your leadership and leading out, leaving a trail for the rest of us to come along. Beautiful Thank you.